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Gerhard
03-09-2013, 02:26 PM
Hi,

I have a problem in playing SACDs. The BDP is connected via two HDMI cables to the outer
world. One to the TV set (audio disabled) and the second one to the AVR (bitstream).

Each time I'd like to listen to a SACD I ony have the Stereo channels.
Any ideas. I only once managed to make it work in multi channel mode.

Cheers
Gerhard

Toengel
03-10-2013, 10:00 AM
Hi,

please check your Firmware Version and MCU Version: http://www.supportforum.philips.com/en/showthread.php?11063-BDP9700-Latest-Firmware-upgrade-(3-71-01)-has-been-released

Is your BDP Setup to use the SACD layer?

Toengel@Alex

Gerhard
03-10-2013, 04:25 PM
[...]
please check your Firmware Version and MCU Version: http://www.supportforum.philips.com/en/showthread.php?11063-BDP9700-Latest-Firmware-upgrade-(3-71-01)-has-been-released

Is your BDP Setup to use the SACD layer?


Update was done correctly, MCU checked okay and setup set to use SACD layer.

Gerhard

Toengel
03-10-2013, 04:27 PM
Hi,

which AVR do you have?

Toengel@Alex

Gerhard
03-10-2013, 05:45 PM
I have a Pioneer VSX921 and a 40PFL9705.
- Gerhard

Gerhard
03-21-2013, 06:16 AM
Seems nobody than me uses the 9700 for SACDs - what a pity :(

Anyway - just to add some more annoying observations:
- some SACDS (namely Pink Floyd promotion disc "Money" and Peter Gabriel "Shaking the Tree"
cause the player to hang - sometimes the ">|" button helps, sometimes a power cycle
- the user interface without having the TV screen on is simply useless - selecting
single tracks on CDs or SACDs is pretty difficult, as the player always shows "play",
when pressing the ">|" button instead of simply counting up the tracks. Pressing
stop and showing "Browser" is also not really helpful - simply showing the current selected
track and the total number of tracks would make more sense.
- trying to start a CD sometimes causes the player to "hang". Power cycling or
resetting helps.

Are there any plans to improve things and more important to fix bugs?

If needed, I could provide more information and test results.
- Gerhard

Gerhard
03-29-2013, 06:51 AM
Okay, nobody asked for but here some more stuff (for completeness):
As mentioned above I'm using the HDMI "bi-wiring" scheme. Disconnecting HDMI Main
from the TV set before plugging in the PDP9700 makes the multi-channel output work
for a SACD (DSOTM - Pink Floyd) on HDMI AVR. While playing a track from this CD,
I plugged in HDMI Main to my TV set (which is in standby mode) and suddenly the sound
switches to "stereo". Needless to say that the player restarts playing track 1...

- Gerhard

WillemV
03-29-2013, 08:38 AM
Hi,

I have a problem in playing SACDs. The BDP is connected via two HDMI cables to the outer
world. One to the TV set (audio disabled) and the second one to the AVR (bitstream).

Each time I'd like to listen to a SACD I ony have the Stereo channels.
Any ideas. I only once managed to make it work in multi channel mode.

Cheers
Gerhard

Hallo Gerard,

I have the same issue, and in addition I noticed that the Stereo signal that comes through (When SACD are played) is PCM 24/88Khz. So, some kind of conversion takes place based on the max capabilities of the DA converter in the TV set. Wrong offcourse. Hopefully this kind of info gives the Philips engineers some kind of clue what needs to be done.

WillemV
03-29-2013, 08:51 AM
Okay, nobody asked for but here some more stuff (for completeness):
As mentioned above I'm using the HDMI "bi-wiring" scheme. Disconnecting HDMI Main
from the TV set before plugging in the PDP9700 makes the multi-channel output work
for a SACD (DSOTM - Pink Floyd) on HDMI AVR. While playing a track from this CD,
I plugged in HDMI Main to my TV set (which is in standby mode) and suddenly the sound
switches to "stereo". Needless to say that the player restarts playing track 1...

- Gerhard

This sounds like valuable information. I will try this option too. It will mean though that no picture will be available at all (Not even the limited play menu)
Did you get native DSD output or was it some kind of PCM downsampling?

WillemV
03-29-2013, 09:08 AM
Hallo Gerard

I did some checks and agree that it works, but I can hardly imagine that this setup is intentional.

So, a summary: In order to get direct DSD output in both the HDMI connector and at the same time through the ANalog RCA (7.1) connectors one has to disconnect the "HDMI main" from any TV set.

The above setup will result in very good sound from SACD (and BLue Ray audio sources), both from the HDMI AVR connector as well as from the RCA connectors. THe DSD D/A conversion in the 9700 seems very well done, so people can stick to their high quality older amplifiers that lack HDMI connections.

As a consequence of the above setup the BDP9700 does not produce any picture; the only thing you get is the black and white screen with warning text HDMI AVR is audio only. !

WillemV
03-30-2013, 08:11 AM
Hi,

I have a problem in playing SACDs. The BDP is connected via two HDMI cables to the outer
world. One to the TV set (audio disabled) and the second one to the AVR (bitstream).

Each time I'd like to listen to a SACD I ony have the Stereo channels.
Any ideas. I only once managed to make it work in multi channel mode.

Cheers
Gerhard

Several inputs have been delivered already but it was somewhat fragmentaric hence my attempt to create clarity for potential support team members that use the forum as a help to fix issues: I have created a list of scenario's and tested those with my equipment availalbe at home: Feel free to add more scenario's.


Scenario 1: HDMI centric high quality SACD playback according to manual
1. Connections: HDMI AVR to AVR, HDMI Main to Digital TV set.
2. Audio Settings BDP9700: HDMI AVR: Bitstream, HDMI Main: Off
3. Result: No six channel DSD bitstream fed into AVR. Instead 88Khz stereo. Analog audio not high quality (Probably a PCM derived signal, too many conversions).
4. Video: Video available through TV set channel.


Scenario 2: Analog centric to AVR
1. Connections: HDMI AVR not connected, HDMI Main to AVR, Analog 7.1 to AVR.
2. Audio Settings BDP9700: HDMI AVR:Bitstream, HDMI Main: Off
3. Result: 6 channel (or 5 since most SACD’s are 5.0) analog sound available in very high quality. However Player stops after most tracks and need next track restart.
4. Video (for selection of tracks and progress of the player) available through monitor out of the AVR.

Scenario 3: Analog centric to external HDMI TV set (for AVR’s without HDMI input)
1. Connections: HDMI AVR not connected, HDMI Main to digital TV, Analog 7.1 to AVR.
2. Audio Settings BDP9700: HDMI AVR:Bitstream, HDMI Main: Off
3. Result: 6 channel analog sound available in very high quality. Occasional stop after tracks and in need of next track restart.
4. Video (for selection of tracks and progress of the player) available through external TV channel..

Scenario 4: HDMI centric DSD direct
5. Connections: HDMI AVR to AVR, HDMI Main to AVR.
6. Audio Settings BDP9700: HDMI AVR: Bitstream, HDMI Main: Off
7. Result: High quality six channel DSD bitstream fed into AVR.
8. Video: No Video available when using the HDMI AVR connected input on the AVR. Switching over to the HDMI Main connected input on the AVR provides Picture from the BDP9700 but causes the DSD bitstream to stop and silence overwhelms.

Used equipment:
Room1: BDP9700 connected to Onkyo TX 875 (With Burr Brown 1796, DSD Direct capable converters); 5 large speakers. Philips Digital TV set 6000 serie

Room2: BDP9700 connected to Marantz SR12-S1 (7.1 channel amplifier without HDMI) 5 Large speakers. Philips 5000 serie TV set.
Other players available for comparison: Sony BDP590, Marantz UD8004, Philips 963SA and Philips 9000SA.

At it stands today Scenario 1 and 4 are useless for different reasons. (no video or no sound)

Normally I would have returned the player already but I decided to put some extra effort in place because the sound quality so far has been very promissing; Seems even better than my beloved UD8004 (Sorry Marantz)

Willem

Toengel
03-30-2013, 10:33 AM
Hi,

please try the new firmware 3.76...

Toengel@Alex

hellochishing
03-30-2013, 10:26 PM
Tried the 3.76 version. But it didn't solve my issue of need to turn on tv to play sacd.

... Great hardware, awesome sound quality .... sloopy software .... Sigh .... What a waste...

WillemV
03-31-2013, 10:28 AM
Hi,

please try the new firmware 3.76...

Toengel@Alex

Sounds great to have new firmware. Unfortunately I cannot find it. It is not posted at the standard product website yet. ? Can you provide me with a link to upload ?

Toengel
03-31-2013, 02:54 PM
Hi,

go to www.philips.com/support and search for your BDP...

Toengel@Alex

Rin
03-31-2013, 04:47 PM
Direct link, just change to the language you need:
http://www.p4c.philips.com/cgi-bin/dcbint/cpindex.pl?ctn=BDP9700/12&slg=en&scy=DE

System Software Version 3.76
- Improvement on playback of 3D blu-ray disc “Avengers” (Asia Pacific version only)
- Enhance Blu-ray disc playability
- Enhance SACD playability
- Enhance the performance of HDMI connection
- Enhance playback performance
- Various bug fix

System Software Version 3.71.01
Fixes the following issues:
- Transparent black bar seen on the bottom of the screen during 3D playback.
- Device hang-up when loading 3D discs while it is connected to HDMI TV and HDMI AV receiver.

WillemV
04-01-2013, 10:56 AM
Thanks Rin for the direct link.

Unfortunately it did not solve the issues related to SACD playback, other than the accidental stop after tracks. All the main problems are still there. In a reply I will include a table with the test results.

WillemV
04-02-2013, 07:21 AM
Below a list of SACD behaviour of the player with FIrmware 3.7

Philips BDP9700 Firmware 3.76

Scenario 1: HDMI centric high quality SACD playback according to manual

Connections: HDMI AVR to AVR, HDMI Main to Digital TV set.
Audio Settings BDP9700: HDMI AVR: Bitstream, HDMI Main: Off
Result: No six channel DSD bitstream fed into AVR. Instead PCM at 88Khz mch. Analog audio not high quality (Probably a PCM derived signal, too many conversions).
Video: Video available through TV set channel.

Scenario 2: AVR only, AVR connected to TV set via monitor out

Connections: HDMI AVR to AVR, HDMI Main to AVR, Analog 7.1 to AVR.
Audio Settings BDP9700: HDMI AVR: Bitstream, HDMI Main: Off
Result: 6 channel (or 5 since most SACD’s are 5.0) DSD bitstream and /or DSD direct analog sound available in very high quality.
Video : Not available without interrupting the DSD stream.

Scenario 3: Analog centric to external HDMI TV set (for AVR’s without HDMI input)

Connections: HDMI AVR not connected, HDMI Main to digital TV, Analog 7.1 to AVR.
Audio Settings BDP9700: HDMI AVR:Bitstream, HDMI Main: Off
Result: 6 channel (or 5 since most SACD’s are 5.0) analog sound available in moderate quality. Most likely a PCM derived signal.
Video (for selection of tracks and progress of the player) available through TV

Required behaviour (is according to user manual): Maximum utilization of 1795 DSD architecture.

Connections: HDMI AVR to AVR or Analog 7.1 to AVR, HDMI Main to TV.
Audio Settings BDP9700: HDMI AVR: Bitstream, HDMI Main: Off
Result: High quality six channel DSD bitstream fed into AVR and DSD based D/A conversion for analog out7.1 connectors
Video: External TV set.

"Note 1: It looks like as if the BDP9700 takes feedback from the HDMI main connection to decide whether to go DSD direct or convert to PCM.

In addition when you switch off the TV set the 9700 stops playing no matter if you have connected any of the HDMI outputs or just the analog cable set.

This is unwanted behaviour. In fact the player should completely ignore the attributes of the HDMI Main connection when playing SACD or CDDA as it is
set to go the DSD route based on the user setting in the audio settings menu.


Note 2: SACD 2ch versus SACD 6 Ch. How can users set the BDP9700 to read the 2channel portion on the SACD ? THere should be a setting in the
audio settings menu to enable the selection of the SACD two channel portion like all other brands do and like all former Philips SACD players.
"

Gerhard
04-02-2013, 11:05 AM
Thank you Willem for the good summary.

I can confirm that the tracks of a SACD are now played without stopping after each track and the behaviour that you need to disconnect HDMI Main from the TV set when you want to have DSD direct from the player. As soon as you plug in the the TV set, the player falls back to PCM (after the update now to multi-channel mode).

Each change on HDMI Main (hot-plugging, switching the TV on etc) causes an unwanted "feedback" to the player - either the sound gets interrupted, or it starts a disk from the very beginning.

So it seems that there's some work to be done to solve these issues.

Wrt "Note 2": I thought that the audio option button on the remote is exactly for this in SACD mode.

- Gerhard

WillemV
04-02-2013, 11:53 AM
Hallo Gerhard,

A very good summary and I fully concur. I think we are narrowing down to the roots or starting point of the failure.

And good point re note 2. It makes sense and I did not test audio option on the remote; I may have assumed that this button drives BR and DVD audio options. Nothing is mentioned in the manual though. Anyway will try it out.

Willem

WTLOM
04-06-2013, 11:33 AM
Hi there

Having updated to the SW v3.76, my 9700 have the similar problem sending DSD signal to AVR when playing sacd.

Setting 1
Audio Menue:HDMI Main OFF
Connection: 2 HDMI Cables
A.) 9700 HDMI Main Off > AVR Main In and B) 9700 HDMI AV Bitstream> AVR HDMI IN
Result: AVR receives PCM 88.2kHz/ No DSD signal detected by AVR

Setting 2
Audio Menue: HDMI Main OFF
Connection: 1 HDMI Cable (9700 HDMI Main > AVR Main, unplugged, both end)
i.e. HDMI Main OFF; 9700 HDMI AVR > AVR HDMI IN
Result: AVR detects DSD but only 44.1 kHz. I don't know this sample rate is correct or not.

Hope a new update can fix the above.

Thanks,
WTLOM

WillemV
04-06-2013, 11:47 AM
Hallo Angus,

Just a note re: sample rate when feeding DSD over HDMI;

The sample rate of DSD is 2,8 Mhz but the way it is send over the HDMI connection is somewhat trivial in the sense that it cuts the total stream in portions of (8bits) 44.1 Khz (for transport purposes only) after which the Delta-Sigma CHip at the reciever end builds the sent information back into a meaningfull DSD stream. So, the 44.1 Khz indication is misleading and as it is not what you hear.

Zerg2905
05-25-2013, 07:36 AM
Hi everyone, I actually do play SACDs on my BDP9700. I use the Philips HTR9900 and set the Neo 6 option "On". It works, I have performed the test with the Depeche Mode SACD collection (receiver set on HDMI or Multi Analog bypass output) - works perfectly, better on MA bypass (oddly, if you set Neo 6 off you will have only stereo output). Second test done with a Nat King Cole Audio Analogue SACD - same results. Thank you. (P. S.: before the latest firmware update the BDP9700 setup was a pain. Even now, somehow when I turn the BDP9700 on, it will freeze the HTR9900 remote control partially - volume works, but switching the source doesn't).