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sokolum
03-04-2011, 10:25 PM
Currently i watch digital TV provided by my cable TV provider Ziggo, The Netherlands. The EPG information is provided by cable provider.

Any change that the EPG user interface will be improved? Because the currently EPG interface is, to say nicely, not so good. For watching digital TV (soon here 200 channels), a good working EPG is needed. Before i bought my Philips 46 9705, i wasnt aware for how bad the implementation of THE EPG interface really is on the 9705.

I didn't paid attention to EPG, because i had before 9705 two other devices with very resonble and good EPG user interface AND they are 3 and 5 years old!!! So, with my experience of these devices and by the expectation pf paying 2600 euro's! i didn't expected that the 9705 would be worse.... Sadly, very Sadly, the EPG implementation is bad.

Honestly, i looks like if there's never been time spend to make an good interface. How can it be that an old Humex decoder, 5 years old (100 euro's) gave me and better user experience then an TV (2600 euro's) with the lastest tegnology?


Here some things that atleast never had should be implemented like that:

- Switching to EPG, it always start again at top, the 1st channel. You can never have an quick look for what's comming next for at the channel you watching at, like say, channel 400.

- The EPG program guide doesnt show at wich channel you currently watching at, very anoying of you want to switch fast back to that channel, anyway it cant if it could, because whenu open EPG, it always start at top.

- Going to EPG, you loose vew and sound of the TV you currently watching at. No small screen at an corner that leeps you track for what's going on.

- Switching to EPG is slow, my old devices where much quicker.

- walking through the EPG menu's, you have to think to mich which button you have to press.


An small list. Any one how can add up the list?
Anyway, i can't recomend 9705 for its EPG.

Jantje Beton
03-05-2011, 08:36 AM
I couldn't agree more, it's really terrible. I'll think twice before buying a Philips product again.

Toengel
03-05-2011, 08:37 AM
Hi,

are you using the IP-EPG or the DVB-EPG?

Also you are using DVB-S, right?

With DVB-C you have PIP and the IP-EPG starts on your current channel...

Toengel@Alex

Jantje Beton
03-05-2011, 08:46 AM
I'm using DVB-C with the EPG setting set to Network. I had the NetTV EPG for a few days, but that stopped working (nothing happened when I pressed Program Guide). After switching to Channel and back to Network again, the program guide did come up, but it was the old one, the one Sokolum describes.

Still, that NetTV was a big step in the right direction, but it's still lacking. The speed of that guide is terrible. Sure, it has to take its data from the internet, but why? My cable company includes it in the signal... And why on Earth is it showing an advertisement?

sokolum
03-05-2011, 09:29 AM
Hi,

As stated in my text, i am using cable, that is DVB-C
PIP (picture in picture), with net- tv, yes, but i am talking here about EPG. TV program guide. The information for the TV program guide is here (Ziggo) delivered by the cable provider.

Here, as far as i know, we cant use net-tv for program guide. *BUT* if i could, it wint make sense, i gues... that seems only more slower to me. Forst i have to foto net-tv for watching EPG information? But as i says, we relay on our cable company to receive THE program guide. That'swork good. But EPG fail terible here.

petasis
03-05-2011, 09:38 AM
I am shouting about the bad EPG from September 2010. In my case, there is no EPG at all for Greece.
But I have tested setting the TV with another country, and the EPG works (showing programs with a wrong hour of course), and the interface I saw as AWFUL. Just like a two column-excel spreadsheet.

A question: Philips does not want to make the *trivial* changes for making EPG working for Greece (just add + 2 hours from GMT). Do you think there is any chance they make more severe changes, like implementing a normal EPG, like all other brands have?

Philips' EPG is a joke. Its much worse than Chinese brands whose devices cost 20 euros.

sokolum
03-05-2011, 09:39 AM
I couldn't agree more, it's really terrible. I'll think twice before buying a Philips product again.

With buying any product i think always twice before i buy (reading forums and , that's i feel now a misleaded by Philips.

Nowhere u read about the poor implementation of EPG. Also the reviewers don't, guess they don't have cable, or not interested to review this part of the TV? Any way i blaim them for this actually. Because there is no other way for a consumer to review this for yourself.

Actually, now i am writing this down, is seems somehow that Philips is misleading the consumers, how, what would u expect me to think when a TV wins an EISA adward! I expect that everything is on par with their competitors... On such (i left out other issues, i am talking here only about EPG) i

That is sad.

Jantje Beton
03-05-2011, 09:42 AM
Well, you could have requested a demo in the store you bought it. Actually I blame myself for not investigation this. After 20 years of Philips TV's I didn't even consider that this part would be so terrible. I stand corrected :(

petasis
03-05-2011, 09:47 AM
Well, EISA awards are also a joke. The same "reviewers" who write these nice "reviews" and "forget" to mention a ton of problems, also vote for EISA "awards"...

sokolum
03-05-2011, 09:58 AM
Well, you could have requested a demo in the store you bought it. Actually I blame myself for not investigation this. After 20 years of Philips TV's I didn't even consider that this part would be so terrible. I stand corrected :(

I don't know 1 store that have DVB-C ready for demo. Without it, there isn't much to see how an EPG is functioning, because there is no information to show.

sokolum
03-05-2011, 10:03 AM
I am shouting about the bad EPG from September 2010. In my case, there is no EPG at all for Greece.
But I have tested setting the TV with another country, and the EPG works (showing programs with a wrong hour of course), and the interface I saw as AWFUL. Just like a two column-excel spreadsheet.

A question: Philips does not want to make the *trivial* changes for making EPG working for Greece (just add + 2 hours from GMT). Do you think there is any chance they make more severe changes, like implementing a normal EPG, like all other brands have?

Philips' EPG is a joke. Its much worse than Chinese brands whose devices cost 20 euros.

Yes, its incredible to see that an Chinese 20~100 euro product deliver an better user experience. I guess paying 2600 euro's doesnt translate into a better user experience, with Philips.

Mmmmm mentioning from September 2010 about the poor EPG implementation. Actually I do expect also from Phils they improve this feature.

So Sad... Again.

bta
03-05-2011, 10:05 AM
Hi,

sorry to say but EPG is a big blemish of Philips.

The user interface of the normal EPG is like in times of MS-DOS and monochrome monitores. The absence of the progress of the art is a pain in the neck.

My IP-EPG is not avialable since beginn of january and I'm realy missing it. Its user Interafce is less worse that the UI of the normal EPG. But less worse does not - I repeat this; does NOT - mean a good UI.

PHILIPS: Do your homework and give your customers a (IP-) EPG that works and that UI is up to date. And please don't say this is planed for the 2011 models - this should be basic since years and not planed for future.

regards
bta

sokolum
03-05-2011, 04:43 PM
And please don't say this is planed for the 2011 models - this should be basic since years and not planed for future.

regards
bta

If ever that might be the case, I prefere to let us know that ASAP.

You know, i can think about so many things why the EPG fals behind of their competitors, even it fals behind of the expectation on what u might expect to see from user interface for an EPG guide.

The thing is, is that i hope to see some explaination from Philips. Will there be an improvement or not?

ahasver
03-06-2011, 08:31 PM
My Phillips-"TV" is a good multimedia-terminal for various external sources, but the design for watching tv is horrible. Philips did believe, people had to use their restrictive boxes from the cable network operators for watching tv... Not only the EPG (without IP in 2009 devices limited to 50 channels...) is unusable but also the channel search and sorting...
When I called support in autumn 2009 (!) for missing channels in IP-EPG they did say it' would be so new and so on... Now even this IP-EPG doesn't work anymore (http://www.supportforum.philips.com/showthread.php?905-IP-EPG-doesn-t-work-anymore-(after-working-more-than-one-year)) for a few month and the EPG from DVB-C is so hardly limited to use with the Philips TV. I use a separate DVB-C-receiver with a usefull EPG for recording and watching. But when watching while recording I use the internal tuner of the TV....
A less hope came with joint space, they claimed to overcome hardware limmitations. But channellist was excluded from difficult interface, so joint space based IP-EPG or channel ordering wouldn't possible.

petasis
03-06-2011, 09:47 PM
IP_EPG is a joke. Relying your TV operation on a single web site like tvtv (which tomorrow may not exist or want money to allow access), for something that is available by DVB-T directly, is really-really bad.

In reality, they have outsourced the development of EPG to tvtv (for just a couple countries supported by it), and have left half (and more) of European countries without EPG support.
And of course, customers with "expired" models, like the 2009 ones...

sokolum
03-06-2011, 10:27 PM
My Phillips-"TV" is a good multimedia-terminal for various external sources, but the design for watching tv is horrible. Philips did believe, people had to use their restrictive boxes from the cable network operators for watching tv... Not only the EPG (without IP in 2009 devices limited to 50 channels...) is unusable but also the channel search and sorting...
When I called support in autumn 2009 (!) for missing channels in IP-EPG they did say it' would be so new and so on... Now even this IP-EPG doesn't work anymore (http://www.supportforum.philips.com/showthread.php?905-IP-EPG-doesn-t-work-anymore-(after-working-more-than-one-year)) for a few month and the EPG from DVB-C is so hardly limited to use with the Philips TV. I use a separate DVB-C-receiver with a usefull EPG for recording and watching. But when watching while recording I use the internal tuner of the TV....
A less hope came with joint space, they claimed to overcome hardware limmitations. But channellist was excluded from difficult interface, so joint space based IP-EPG or channel ordering wouldn't possible.

I readed your thread, Lets find some good script writers and we have an nice horror movie :D

Seriously, i didn't know that Philips struggled for such long time with their EPG implementation.
Their BIGGEST competitor in Korea can do it, why Philips can't?

Really, good design isn't everything, i hope the bells are ringing there at Philips.

Is Philips reading also this thread? Because i did some investigation on other Dutch forums, and my BIGGEST fear became true, there are more people who agree about the poor EPG implementation.

sokolum
03-06-2011, 10:30 PM
IP_EPG is a joke. Relying your TV operation on a single web site like tvtv (which tomorrow may not exist or want money to allow access), for something that is available by DVB-T directly, is really-really bad.

In reality, they have outsourced the development of EPG to tvtv (for just a couple countries supported by it), and have left half (and more) of European countries without EPG support.
And of course, customers with "expired" models, like the 2009 ones...

As i said before, i am getting sceptical about this now, in KOREA there is an compagnie who can do magic! Maybe Philips should learn some magic from them?

ahasver
03-06-2011, 11:24 PM
Seriously, i didn't know that Philips struggled for such long time with their EPG implementation.No, they didn't struggle. They did ignore the importance of this feature.
Every settop box I know has a better EPG, but for intern tuners in TV this is often implemented badly.

Their BIGGEST competitor in Korea can do it, why Philips can't?When I bought my TV it was the ONLY competitor for me. And my decision for Philips was only the design... Now I have a recent smart phone by this company and it's a really good mobile media player and many other, but I can't use it as phone in with a special network operator here in Germany - a bug in current software version (but not occuring with other devices or other network operators...) So may be their TVs have other disadvantages...

kas
06-19-2011, 09:18 PM
I used a Samsung decoder (DCB H360 RS) on my previous TV. And stil use a Humax on my other TV. Now with the 9705 I am using the CI+ module. So I am condemned to the Philips EPG and it is a very rude awakening indeed.

Just yesterday, I updated the TV firmware and now the EPG starts at the program you are watching: duhh.

But for the rest: totally lame. The image disappears, the sound disappears, a black page is shown with no further info, no preview window, no program info, no nothing!

Please Philips engineers: become proud and make something that we (the users) want. Look at Humax, look at Samsung, do something. We all paid lots of money for this TV and we want the best!!

Jantje Beton
06-20-2011, 08:18 PM
Just yesterday, I updated the TV firmware and now the EPG starts at the program you are watching: duhh.
Well, yeah, but if you choose another channel with the EPG, and want to return to the previous channel with the 'previous channel' (or back) button, it still switches to Channel 1... QFT

Peer
07-29-2011, 02:39 PM
The DVB-C EPG is not good but is still much faster then the IP-EPG. There are two issues Philips has to change: Display the EPG semi-transparent on top of the current channel you're watching with sound on and not muted. Secondly, the EPG have to follow the order of the channels. I have reordered my favourite channels but the DVB-C EPG still shows the default provider order.

40PFL9705H/12, 140,039 SW

Jantje Beton
07-29-2011, 06:38 PM
I completely second that.

ahasver
07-30-2011, 12:06 AM
Secondly, the EPG have to follow the order of the channels. I have reordered my favourite channels but the DVB-C EPG still shows the default provider order.After reordering channels the old order seems to remain at least until next switch off, but may be longer. May be you have to switch off and unplug from power line after reordering channels. This did help in my case many times in the past. Only standby didn't help. If even unplugging didn't help. may be you have additionally to temporary change to DVB-T, make a channel search in DVB-T, switch On and off again and then change back to DVB-C. After returning my TV from Philips support to make IP-EPG work, only this procedure did help to change from installed provider order (which besides wasn't my provider order) to the real channel order.

Sati
08-29-2011, 11:27 AM
just wanted to say, that DVB-S EPG is not present on Philips. So please add DBV-S EPG to your todo list.

Sati

Sati
08-30-2011, 05:29 AM
OK, this evening, I played a little with the settings of my brand new Philips 42PFL7606K/02.
I noticed, that you can swith from Internet to SAT-EPG. SAT-EPG is better for me since internet is very slow here.
Must haves for EPG:
- Show the program name, actual time, name of actual film when the program is switchted
- Quick way to get the current programs, without several clicks through the main menu - blue key for example
- get extended information about the current film on a key
- program a recording inside the EPG

Please find a little designer, the look and feel of the EPG is DOS style.
It would be fine to make it possible to setup the font size. This way it would be possible to show much more programs at once.

Sati

seo
09-01-2011, 06:41 PM
Totally agree and also proper timeline.