PDA

View Full Version : Major crosstalk / ghosting problems with 3d. Philips read this!



F0nt4n
03-18-2011, 06:11 PM
Hello dear Philips,

few days ago I bought new 46PFL8605 46" for 2500€ with PTA02 upgrade kit "3D".

Well I connected it with ps3 and launched Motorstorm apocalypse and tried Killzone 3 in 3D.

Your 3D tv has majaor problems in 3D mode with crosstalk / ghosting. The glasses shutter, but I do see only HUD in 3D

and thats all. There is no difference with glasses or with out them I can see only ghosting picture.

What I tried:
Updated Tv and PS3 to latest FW
Yes, PS3 asked me for 3D TV, resolution
Tried to set manufactor settings on PS3 and TV
Changed glasses battery
Bought new hdmi cable special for PS3 with 3D support
PS3 settings show: 720 3D and 1080 3D

And yes I am not the only one who experience the same problem:
http://www.supportforum.philips.com/showthread.php?1100-What-is-your-3D-setup-and-how-well-does-it-work
http://www.supportforum.philips.com/showthread.php?634-Philips-Series-8-and-9-and-3D-Gaming&p=3409&viewfull=1#post3409
http://www.supportforum.philips.com/showthread.php?634-Philips-Series-8-and-9-and-3D-Gaming&p=3423&viewfull=1#post3423
http://www.supportforum.philips.com/showthread.php?634-Philips-Series-8-and-9-and-3D-Gaming&p=3440&viewfull=1#post3440
http://www.supportforum.philips.com/showthread.php?634-Philips-Series-8-and-9-and-3D-Gaming&p=3764&viewfull=1#post3764

Please take this serious, what did I payed for? Plastik glasses

muratn
03-25-2011, 07:15 AM
Hi,

I bought 46PFL8505 3 week ago and I have same problems. I agree with F0nt4n. also I will return this thing ( I cant say 3D TV) as soon as posible.

"Philips read this" - so what? There is no solution.

Niccu
03-25-2011, 11:36 AM
Hi

I have also the 46PFL8605 bought last month with same problems. I also tried all that F0nt4n mentioned, all with negative results.

Waiting for Solution

tady
03-27-2011, 03:22 PM
I bought 2 weeks ago 46PFL9705. And I have got the same problem.
I am using Philips's 3D Bluray Player which is BDPP7500 as well.
When I watch 2D movies I don't have any problem. But when I like to watch 3D movies
or 3D chanells, the pictures are mixing to eachother. There is being very ghosty, burelly screen which
it is impossible to watch the movie in 3d mode with glasses or without glasses.
It seems Philips has got serrious problem in this issue.
I called the technicans to check the problem and if possible to change the TV with the TV which 3D really works on it.

Toengel
06-01-2011, 09:39 AM
Hi,

I also have cross talk with my 58PFL9955. I tested the BD-3D: http://www.amazon.de/Die-Fantastischen-Vier-Version-Blu-ray/dp/B0042LJVUI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1306921050&sr=8-1

Some of the diplayed song titles have ghosting (which are shown during the concert), also the people near the camera have ghosting.

Toengel@Alex

Toengel
07-05-2011, 06:22 AM
Hi,

in one of the recent update Philips did something regarding X-Talk. So check, of your TV has the latest version installed (140.37). The problem could also be the Glasses. The need an exact shuttering...

Toengel@Alex

Toengel
07-05-2011, 12:33 PM
Hi,

21:9 Cinema (58PFL9955) together with BDP9600... but I only have 2 BDs for testing... However, I will try the new shutter glasses (PTA516) when they are available on the market...

Toengel@Alex

Toengel
07-05-2011, 12:49 PM
Hi,

as far as I know they should be available in July this year (at least in Germany). And they should be compatible with the 2010 3D series...

Toengel@Alex

RichardEhv
07-27-2011, 01:35 PM
Thank you, I was going to buy the PTA02,
however I rather wait a bit for the PTA516 and some positive reviews.

I think I still need a infrared transmitter ( PTA215/00 ).
http://download.p4c.philips.com/files/p/pta516_00/pta516_00_pss_eng.pdf

Leonos
08-17-2011, 10:20 AM
You better wait for the new original XPAND Youniversal glasses (they come in september 2011).
They are compatible with the Philips TVs and you are able to finetune lots of things in these glasses. These have the latest technology of XPand in it.

The PTA516 is just a design upgrade of the PTA02 and has an option for 3D gaming (not yet available on any game device).

Toengel
08-17-2011, 11:02 AM
The PTA516 is just a design upgrade of the PTA02 and has an option for 3D gaming (not yet available on any game device).

Hi,

my information say that the PTA512 do shutter better...

And the Gaming mode is the Dual-View-Gaming switch for player one/two...

Toengel@Alex

Leonos
08-19-2011, 12:09 PM
Lets wait for someone that can test the PTA02 and PTA512 and let us know the differences (and qualities)

Toengel
08-23-2011, 06:40 AM
Hi,

1) a Philips technican told me that
2) see manual

Toengel@Alex

miro9000
08-31-2011, 02:52 PM
Hey, the new glasses pta516 are available now is Spain ( 80 € a pair) . They are compatibles with the 2010 models.
Has somebody tested it ? The user manual don´t talk about the diferences of quality with the old set pta512

HarleyBarley
09-09-2011, 01:44 PM
Hi

Just got a pair of PTA516s and can confirm they make absolutely NO difference to the significant ghosting problems. Contacted the Philips helpline who stated that the TV is a "2010 and therefore first generation 3D model" and therefore "some ghosting can be expected" However they won't quantify just what "some" means......does it mean the 20% - 25% secondary image visibility I can see?

Approach was also to suggest that I should have bought a Philips 3D bluray player rather than the Panasonic one I did buy. Think though I would rather not stick with Philips next time - I think I'd rather buy Panasonic which appear to have far superior capabilities!

Very unhappy with both the TV and and the aftersales service ( totally unresolved issue) - this is the 5th Philips TV I have had and probably the last! Shame really as apart from the 3D it is a nice TV!

ali54
10-10-2011, 09:04 PM
your problem with 3d is your tv not the transmeter

Cookie
10-10-2011, 09:35 PM
What SW is in the TV? You can check with "123654" via the remote control.

Toengel
10-11-2011, 06:56 AM
Hi,

the PTA215 sender is the same as the sender in the PTA02 set... but now sold sperately

Toengel@Alex

black_angel
10-20-2011, 03:32 PM
There will be a new update for 8605 so as to make a decent 3D?

black_angel
10-22-2011, 02:33 PM
I wonder if the forum administrators Philips read the complaints and questions that their customers write ... I have written if there is a new update for the 3D and others, isf Improvement type controls, but all is silent except for the kind response Toengel that the new models have the features I described. (I had read the review on the new models and have every feature and isf controllu 3d) Toengel my tv 52 pfl 8605 with a new fw update will be able to have these controls for the 3D (depth and distance to reduce gost? isf controls may have?) thanks

Toengel
10-22-2011, 03:55 PM
Hi,

3D depth control is a 2011 feature only. And as far as I know, this feature is only availalbe for the 2D-to-3D-conversion function.

Toengel@Alex

black_angel
10-22-2011, 06:58 PM
Ciao Toengel no non è esatto.. ho comprato un lettore blu ray panasonic bdt 310 per le sue doppie uscite hdmi essendo in possesso di un amplificatore hd ma non 3d.. il lettore mi da la possibilità di correggere il cross talk sia profondita che effetto del 3d.. le stesse funzioni si trovano sui tv sony samsung modelli 2010, soni stati implementati con un nuovo aggiornamento e nuovi occhiali attivi cosi da migliorare il 3d se ne parla nei vari forum, ecco perchè chiedo se ci sarà un nuovo aggiornamento fw e se ci sarà la possibilita che anche i nostri tv di fascia media o alta integrino i controlli isf o controlli per il 3d. grazie Black_Angel

black_angel
10-22-2011, 06:59 PM
I apologize, but the translator did not work:) Hello Toengel no it's not exact .. I bought a blu ray player panasonic bdt 310 for its dual HDMI outputs being in possession of an amplifier hd but not 3d .. the reader gives me the opportunity to correct the cross talk is that depth of 3D effect .. the same features found on sony samsung tv models 2010, soni been implemented with a new update and new active glasses so as to improve the 3D talk about it in various forums, that's why I ask if there will be a new fw update and if there will be possibility that our TV or high-end incorporating isf controls or controls for 3d. Thanks Black_Angel:)

Philips - Thomas
10-24-2011, 08:24 AM
Hi

Toengel is right.
The features you requested are only available on 2k11 TV's when you use 2D to 3D conversion.
An Update to have this Feature also on other TVs in other Situations is not planed.

Regards
Thomas

black_angel
10-24-2011, 03:41 PM
philips so dear forum administrator tells me that I have to keep a TV and as 3d is a process and without control isf has white color range and very imperfect? so sony samusung care or more of its customers upgrading their TV with features that make decent vision .. I'm sorry but I feel offended by Philips Consumer and disappointed by the lack of consideration for those who spend $ 2000 for your television .. by philip ongi years as a reason I should buy a TV because the former has a function that is easily updated with pua fw .. well be my last tv philip .. thank you

Vlado360
10-29-2011, 04:42 PM
Sorry my bad English. I have a TV 46PFL9705H. Philips could make a new 3D UPDATE for 3D ghost? Suffice it to some simple menu in order to solve this problem?

LED TV in 2010/2011, and other models deserve it and requires !!!!!!!

Please keep your PHILIPS quality !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

berndboehner
11-02-2011, 08:26 AM
In my opinion too, Philips should really do something to improve the 3D performance on 2010 TV models (in my case: 46PFL8605K). The ghosting really disturbs the watching experience in most 3d movies, especially when the 3d effects have a big depth. Sometimes it is barely unwatchable and brings headache. So, Philips, please bring some major improvements for our "3D-Ready" TVs!

Toengel
11-02-2011, 08:30 AM
Hi,

to improve the 3D experience, switch the TV on at least one hour before viewing 3D content. And after 2 hours it should be optimal...

Toengel@Alex

black_angel
11-02-2011, 06:42 PM
but it's a TV or a coffee machine???

empyty
11-12-2011, 12:41 PM
From love to hate, that's how I can describe my feelings to Philips. I bought 46PFL8605, than additional 3D set. Of course I've had same problems as everyone here, huge ghosting. After sending my TV to service, they said that everything is fine and even that my 3D movies have really great depth... I keep upgrading SW, I even bought PTA516 to see if there is any improvement. None gave any effect of course.
But after writing to Philips customer care in Poland, Great Britain and lately even to Holland I've lost any positive feelings about this company. These people don't care about any of You people, they see these e-mails but they have more important things to do.
After nine month of fight, I promised to myself to tell as many people as possible about the desire of this company to become the worst producer in TV's. I'm glad that I work in big European department store selling TV's. People spread your words to others, they can't get out of it with clean names. Write everywhere You can, tell anyone You can.

Hope to see: "Philips read this"

Greetings to all cheated customers, sorry for Your loss.

HarleyBarley
11-13-2011, 04:09 PM
I'm wondering whether to pursue a legal course of action using the Trades Descriptions Act 1968. Under the terms of the Act any descriptions of goods should be accurate and not misleading. If the description is false to a material degree, e.g. has a significant impact on a purchaser’s ability to enjoy and/or use the goods/services then an offence is committed under the Trade Descriptions Act.

Philips advertised the 40PFL9705H "Fully HD 3D Ready for a truly immersive 3D movie experience. Be enthralled by 3D movies in your own living room with the Full HD 3D ready TV. Active 3D uses the latest generation of fast switching displays for real life depth and realism in full 1080 x 1920 HD resolution". This description was certainly a factor in my purchase, and given that in reality the set is pretty much unwatchable in 3D mode then I feel I have been misled.

empyty
11-13-2011, 05:19 PM
I thought about this, and even talked to the lawyer. The problem is, they prove You by their service that by their opinion everything is fine. So what You need to do, is to prove them by independent specialist (which You have to pay of course, and pretty a lot, bout 200 euro) that it's not fine. Than You go to court, where even when You win the case, they will change your TV for the same model, maybe for 2011 if You're lucky. And You have very small chances for returning the money you spent for the specialist. And then if the new one still has the problem, everything starts all over.
I'm pretty sure that Philips knows about this, and they are sure that no one wants to lose so much time and money. So I'll be glad when they will change theirs stance about customer service, or they will probably lose every one of them.

Greetings

Leonos
11-16-2011, 11:17 AM
The truth is that the 2009/2010 and even 2011 models LCD panel are just not quick enough to prevent the ghosting. There is not any software solution that can adjust this accept one.
I've modified the timings on the glasses but all without success, just because the ghosting is not caused by synchronisation.
It's caused by the lag of the panels, so for example, when you see a lot of ghosting, these are just the LCDs-pixels, which were there for the other eye, which are not able to switch to the color at which they should be.
So if a white pixel for the right eye, suddenly should be black for the left eye, it just cannot switch that fast, so a 'gray' pixel is shown in the left picture and backwards again.

Now for the only software solution that could prevent this is to lower the interval switching between left and right. So lets say that a frame for one eye is shown for 100ms, this should be increased. The pixel with lag is still there but is less noticable because the picture is shown longer and the pixel is able to recover to the good color. Disadvantage is that flicker may occur at one point.

Another hardware solution is to add some heating system behind your screen which causes to heat up the panel which causes the pixes to be faster. I did that and my ghosting is just completly gone with that ! But the software solution should be an option I think.

johngialips
11-16-2011, 11:56 AM
I've modified the timings on the glasses but all without success, just because the ghosting is not caused by synchronisation.
It's caused by the lag of the panels, so for example, when you see a lot of ghosting, these are just the LCDs-pixels, which were there for the other eye, which are not able to switch to the color at which they should be.
So if a white pixel for the right eye, suddenly should be black for the left eye, it just cannot switch that fast, so a 'gray' pixel is shown in the left picture and backwards again.

Now for the only software solution that could prevent this is to lower the interval switching between left and right. So lets say that a frame for one eye is shown for 100ms, this should be increased. The pixel with lag is still there but is less noticable because the picture is shown longer and the pixel is able to recover to the good color. Disadvantage is that flicker may occur at one point.

how can you do these modifications?

Leonos
11-16-2011, 01:52 PM
It's not there now. Philips should add this feature to their firmware to make the ghosting less, but I think the development department at Philips are not capable of doing such things. I think they only can modify some out-of-the-box parameters. The main firmware is probably created by another company. That also explains why all those bugs and requests are not solved by them.

I've learned a hard lesson last year with my 40pfl9705 that I shouldn't have bought a Philips TV.
Recently I've purchased a samsung 6500 for my bedroom and besides that this TV has the same picture quality as Philips it also is much faster, thinner, has more features, doesn't have strange bugs and has good 3D quality. Also the glasses were half the price of those PTA's.

No, never a Philips for me again.

haugejan
11-22-2011, 08:38 PM
I have a 46pfl9706t and I think it’s too much ghosting/crosstalk on this. I think this is quite strange since this should be the best 3D TV according to Eisa. I also had a 9705 and the crosstalk on that was really bad. 9706 is better but you can still see it, especially on the sub title when there is a lot of 3D on these. That is probably because they are white.

I’ve now bought another “cheap” 7606 with passive 3D glasses for my other living room, and I must say that the 3D on this is much better. You don’t see any crosstalk at all. How can it be that at cheap 7606 with passive 3D glasses could be so much better than a expensive 9706 best in class 3D TV with active 3D glasses? I’ve tested with the same blue ray player (PS3) and blue ray movie. I’ve also spent hours adjusting my 9706 and I’ve been able to reduce the crosstalk but you still see it to much.

Toengel
11-23-2011, 06:33 AM
Hi,

try to switch on your 9706 at least 1-2 hours before switching into 3D mode. This should enhance your 3D experience...

Toengel@Alex

johngialips
11-23-2011, 01:38 PM
Hi,

try to switch on your 9706 at least 1-2 hours before switching into 3D mode. This should enhance your 3D experience...

Toengel@Alex

if rooms temperature is normal this technique is not enough.
this take place only the summer.

Faroman
11-23-2011, 06:27 PM
Philips? Never again. So much hard earned money, for nothing. No service, no answers to your questions, no more Firmware-Updates to solve the 3D-Ghosting-Problem. There are so much cheaper TV's with an excellent 3D-Picture, nothing more to say than: Who cares about Ambilight, who cares about best quality of the picture, 3D is the future and Philips doesn't do anything to help it's (ex-)customers.

Miltos2304
03-13-2012, 02:26 PM
I have philips 46pfl9706h/12 and also have major crosstalk problems. In some scenes the image goes out of focus...And i paid 2700 euros for this TV because of the good reviews.......Bluray in 2d is nice.But in 3d? CMON philips....fix this with an update please.

For such an expensive TV it would be nice to be able to enjoy 3d.

Im starting thinking that i did wrong not purchasing Samsung D8000.... And 1000 euros less also..... :(

I also have the PTA 516..no buzzing sound from them..I think they fix that....yayyy they fixed something lol

Beddlesteadowl
04-17-2012, 03:01 PM
Hi,

try to switch on your 9706 at least 1-2 hours before switching into 3D mode. This should enhance your 3D experience...

Toengel@Alex


Yep this has always worked for me on my 58PFL9955. With time to warm up (1-2 hours) and the settings set to Dynamic with contrast etc at maximum, this TV has superb 3D.