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View Full Version : Dimming problem every time subtitles appear on 32PFL9705



Freddy
03-28-2011, 03:52 PM
Hello again everyone! :)

This time I would like to point out, what I think is, a bug in the "Dynamic Backlight" dimming function on every 32" PFL9705 and at least some (if not all) 40" and 46" PFL9705, the 58" PFL9955, plus the latest 58" PFL9956, 40" and 52" PFL9606 and even the 46" PFL9706. This bug can be very annoying, especially in darker scenes.

Put this on USB to watch with Dynamic Backlight activated:
http://uploading.com/files/e9aam9fb/SubtitleDimming.mpg

In this short sample I made of the movie "Entrapment" (never mind the fuzziness, it was big enough already), you can clearly see the dimming of the upper part of the picture every time subtitles appear at the bottom.

Why!?... :confused: It may be to increase contrast even further (unnecessary, as it is strong enough), but I would rather leave parts of the picture where nothing is changing alone. Because when you don't, the dimming (every time subtitles appear) and undimming (every time they disappear again) is very apparent, as nothing should be changing in those parts at all.

Please Philips, it would be great if you could improve the Local Dimming function at this point, as I think it is the last big disadvantage of an otherwise great feature! :cool:

Thanks again in advance! And enjoy Sean and Catherine... ;)

Freddy

mdiehl
03-30-2011, 04:05 PM
hi Freddy,

sadly i must give you my full agreement about this bug you have found.
it makes absolut no sense to dim the picture while the subtitle appears.
philips please fix this!

for all other users with a xxPFL9705 please test this too.
and give a short response here.

thank you!

markus

Freddy
04-01-2011, 09:51 AM
Just a quick follow up.

Pointed out by Markus, I realized that this error as described by me, probably is not seen that much in countries where subtitles are quite rare.

But... the same happens when, for example, an announcement appears on screen or the name of a person is shown.
Once you've seen this, you'll notice it more and more often. :(

So... Philips?... I really hope you will be able to solve this as well as you've solved the Dark Backlight bands problem! :cool:

And yes, just as Markus asked all the other users: please test this too and report your results here.

DaveR
04-05-2011, 06:16 PM
I have the same dimming issue on my 32PFL9705. Very distracting.

I am surprised to hear that it does not occur on the 40" and 46" versions of this TV... this indeed suggests that it is a bug and that it should be (easily?) fixable on the 32"...

Dave

Adamo
04-06-2011, 06:33 PM
Hi Freddy,

I've tested your video sample on my 32PFL9705H/12 (fw 0.140.32.0) and I've got the same problem, just as you described.
I've tried also to change the video settings (normal, live, energy saving, etc.) and the problem remain.
I think is the same behavior that the tv has when it shows information messages (eg. when you select the option to disable the "light sensor", the tv shows a pop-up box that is brighter than the rest of the image) :confused:

Adamo

Freddy
04-06-2011, 08:46 PM
I've tried also to change the video settings (normal, live, energy saving, etc.) and the problem remain.Yes indeed, that doesn't matter, as long as "Dynamic Backlight" is activated (Standard/Optimal).

I think is the same behavior that the tv has when it shows information messages (eg. when you select the option to disable the "light sensor", the tv shows a pop-up box that is brighter than the rest of the image) :confused:Yes, that can trigger it too when the picture is dim enough. Turning the sound on or off is another example.

Freddy
04-16-2011, 11:30 AM
Hello again,

I just wanted to let you... Philips... ;) know that this problem is still present in the latest firmware 140.34.
So... :( I really hope you will be working on this as much as you are on the persistent sound problem.

For me this is now the only problem that's really bothering me. The sound problem doesn't happen very often in my case, but this dimming problem happens more than I originally thought...
You see, a lot of the scenes where this problem occurs are the same as where previously the dark backlight bands were shown, so... now that those are gone, this has become a lot more apparent.

I'm really looking forward to a solution, as that would make the picture close to perfect for me!... :cool:

Thanks again in advance! :)

Freddy

corollafan
04-30-2011, 09:55 PM
Hi,

Same local dimming problem as described above!
Very annoying, hope it will be solved in the next software update...

corollafan

DellUser
05-01-2011, 08:42 AM
Dynamic backlighting: The name already explains what it does; Normally the backlight brightness is fixed. In some Philips TVís you can choose to make it dynamic. At dark scenes or pictures there will be more brightness of the backlight and at bright scenes there will be less brightness. The backlight brightness is based on the average light output.

It is a great feature when you watch a picture slideshow or movies without subtitles.

It is annoying when watching a movie with subtitles. The subtitles are in bright white; they make a big change in the average screen brightness, so the TV is responding to that for the whole screen.

If you donít like it, turn it off! So, it is not a bug and it canít be fixed in these TVís.

In the ďhigh-end rangeĒ this is not an issue. There the backlight is a comlete matix of LEDís behind the LCD screen. Every bright spot in the picture is lighted-out locally. So brightness of subtitles do not affect brightness elsewhere on the screen.

Freddy
05-01-2011, 01:06 PM
Dynamic backlighting: The name already explains what it does; Normally the backlight brightness is fixed. In some Philips TVís you can choose to make it dynamic. At dark scenes or pictures there will be more brightness of the backlight and at bright scenes there will be less brightness. The backlight brightness is based on the average light output.

It is a great feature when you watch a picture slideshow or movies without subtitles.Hmmm... what'll I do!?... :rolleyes: Simply ignore this "wise" lesson, or...

It is annoying when watching a movie with subtitles. The subtitles are in bright white; they make a big change in the average screen brightness, so the TV is responding to that for the whole screen.

If you donít like it, turn it off! So, it is not a bug and it canít be fixed in these TVís.

In the ďhigh-end rangeĒ this is not an issue. There the backlight is a comlete matix of LEDís behind the LCD screen. Every bright spot in the picture is lighted-out locally. So brightness of subtitles do not affect brightness elsewhere on the screen.It would not have have been a bad idea to have a look at what kind of TV we're talking about here... ;) as our 32PFL9705 is definitely "high-end range" with "a complete matrix of LEDís behind the LCD screen"! :cool:

So I take it that now you agree with us that it is a bug?... :D

Frezzaldo
05-01-2011, 01:35 PM
If you don’t like it, turn it off! So, it is not a bug and it can’t be fixed in these TV’s.

By turning off the dynamic backlight you loose a lot of black, and the image dosn't look that great. If everyone was thinking like you, there would be no improvements in this world!

I have the same problem with my 46PFL9705.

Freddy
05-01-2011, 01:47 PM
I have the same problem with my 46PFL9705.That's really interesting, as so far I've only had reports from 32PFL9705 owners here.
So just to be sure, when watching the "Entrapment" fragment I posted, you also notice the dimming of the upper part of the picture when subtitles appear, and the subsequent brightening of the picture when the subtitles disappear again?...

Frezzaldo
05-01-2011, 02:56 PM
That's really interesting, as so far I've only had reports from 32PFL9705 owners here.
So just to be sure, when watching the "Entrapment" fragment I posted, you also notice the dimming of the upper part of the picture when subtitles appear, and the subsequent brightening of the picture when the subtitles disappear again?...

When i watch the SubtitleDimming.mpg I can see the problem that you also notice. I can see a change in the area around the subtitles. I also, not alle the time, notice a change in the rest of the image when subtitles comes on. This is the same problem that I have when I watch blurays. On my TV this change can happen both when subtitles are on and off, but more often when subtitles are on.

Freddy
05-07-2011, 12:33 PM
So now it seems this unwanted effect is not specific to the 32" PFL9705, but also happens on the 40" and 46" versions.

May I make a few suggestions to improve this, Philips?... (As if you would need my suggestions... :rolleyes: :p)

It looks like this bad effect occurs, because the intensity of neighboring LED zones is adapted to the intensity of the zone(s) where something is happening (subtitles appearing in this case). I can understand why you are doing this (to lessen the halo effect around bright objects), but I think this should be done in a very, very limited way. After all, the function is called LOCAL Dimming.

The way it is now, it can happen that the appearance of a bright object in the upper left corner, effects the LED intensity in the lower right corner as well!... :( That can't be right, can it!?...

So my suggestions are:

1. - make the dimming effect more local than it is now. Direct neighbors may influence each other slightly, but not any further zones.
It seems that now the intensity of a LED zone is effected not only by the brightness of the picture in that zone, but also on the INTENSITY (instead of the picture brightness) of the neighboring LED zones.
This can be seen by looking at a dim picture and then putting something bright on screen (by turning on/off the sound for example). When you do this, you can see the dimming effect spread over the screen: the first zones to react are where the action is (upper left in this case), but then more and more zones react to that (towards the middle and finally even in the lower right).
To overcome this unwanted effect, no longer take into account the neighboring zones' LED intensity anymore. Only take into account the picture brightness in the zone itself as well as in its direct neighbors.

This would make it perfect and, for me, this would be my favorite solution.
Another possibility could be:

2. - make a new setting, in which the user can set the level of locality: 0 would mean not local at all (i.e. as if it were a global dimming system), whereas 10 would be completely local (i.e. neighboring zones are not taken into account at all).

That way the user could make its own choice between the different advantages and disadvantages of local dimming, depending on the source material.
And finally my least favorite option:

3. - if nothing else works, an exception could be made for subtitles, causing them not to influence the rest of the picture.

I hope some of these ideas are helpful to you!... I'm really looking forward to your solution! :)
Thanks again in advance!

Freddy

Freddy
05-13-2011, 11:40 AM
Hello again everyone! :)

Just to make it easier for people to test this bug, I made a new test screen:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_YfqlomrpD7w/Tc0UPQ7IY3I/AAAAAAAABPo/Sf6gc8HEmG4/s0/DarkVolume.jpg

Just put it on USB and watch it on your PFL9705, making sure "Dynamic Backlight" is activated.
Now that it's on your screen, turn the volume (yes, the sound ;) ) on or off, up or down.

The symbol that appears in the upper left corner then does the "trick".
Of course you see the picture become slightly brighter there where the symbol appears. That's because the LED's in the upper left corner zone become more intense, as they should.

But now look at the lower left corner... Notice the picture actually dims there as soon as the volume symbol appears on screen?... This happens because the LED's in the lower left corner zone become LESS intense, and that should definitely not happen!

This is the same problem as the one I started this thread with, it's just a little easier to test it this way.

Again please let me know your results, complete with size (32/40/46") and firmware version.

Freddy

Adamo
05-15-2011, 11:29 AM
Hi Freddy!

I've tried your test image with my 32pfl9705H/12 (fw ver 0.140.36.00): same problem for me... :(

I hope that Philips will solve this issue.

Regards,
Adamo

mdiehl
05-15-2011, 01:33 PM
hi,

same problem here with your new test image.
32PFL9705K/02.

markus

durtro
07-20-2011, 12:46 PM
Have the same problem in a 32PFL9705H/12. Most sources with subtitles exhibit this annoying effect and those are a big portion because in Portugal almost everything is subtitled besides kids programs and national ones.

Because of that, many times I disable the dynamic backlight or else I see the picture "flashing" with the subtitles.

DerShortyy
07-20-2011, 09:19 PM
I can confirm this "bug" on my 32pfl9705k/02. Although i do not watch movies with subtitles very often... but i tested the files you guys uploaded here... i you are forced to watch with subtitles i can understand that it is anoying...
Best regards

durtro
07-21-2011, 02:11 PM
This is the same examples I posted in another Freddy's thread. He asked me to post them in this thread also.

There are two little videos showing the problem at http://homeo11.durtro.operaunite.com/file_sharing/content/

The first one is the mouse pointer effect when it appears over the still frame and also the video toolbar effect when it appears at the bottom.

The second one is the video itself during a little segment where the effect is clearly visible with at least one subtitle.

Those are directly hosted by my computer and should be available every time I have opera up and running.

Freddy
07-21-2011, 02:27 PM
Thanks durtro, :)

as I said, especially your first video (MOV00585.MPG) clearly shows the bug we're dealing with here.

Please Philips, look at his video's and/or use my video and picture tests to see the problem yourself. And please, find a solution for, what I think is, the last big picture quality bug! :( I had hoped for a solution in the last four firmware updates already, but unfortunately... it is still there in 140.39!...

Freddy
08-30-2011, 09:15 PM
Hello again, :)

today I made a new test picture, showing this bug even more clearly than ever before!... (What smiley to use here?... :confused: ... :( ... or... :cool:)

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-F-_YNInwgpc/Tl1NnnT7QlI/AAAAAAAABgU/Nu6FlC_7zrs/s0/DarkFlowers.jpg

If you, Philips... and everyone else of course... could maybe take a look at it again, this time with firmware 140.40!?...
Just watch the picture and turn the sound on and/or off... and watch the problem show itself!...

The appearance of the volume indicator in the upper left corner SHOULD NOT influence the ENTIRE picture!...

Please Philips... fix this bug, please!...

Thanks again in advance!

Freddy

durtro
08-30-2011, 09:49 PM
Hello again, :)

today I made a new test picture, showing this bug even more clearly than ever before!... (What smiley to use here?... :confused: ... :( ... or... :cool:)

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-F-_YNInwgpc/Tl1NnnT7QlI/AAAAAAAABgU/Nu6FlC_7zrs/s0/DarkFlowers.jpg

If you, Philips... and everyone else of course... could maybe take a look at it again, this time with firmware 140.40!?...
Just watch the picture and turn the sound on and/or off... and watch the problem show itself!...

The appearance of the volume indicator in the upper left corner SHOULD NOT influence the ENTIRE picture!...

Please Philips... fix this bug, please!...

Thanks again in advance!

Freddy

I've seen worse. Like in "MOV00605.MPG" in http://admin.homeo11.durtro.operaunite.com/file_sharing/content/. The all image flashes quite visibly when the mouse appears. By the way, in most of this situations the image needs to be fullscreen for the effect to be fully visible. In movie aspect ratios the problem is passable since I put my subtitles on the lower black border and the effect does not affect the outside movie frame, however, in anime, tv series and most other content the effect is a constant. More than 50% of the content I see is affected by this which makes the dynamic backlight useless.

Adamo
08-31-2011, 08:53 PM
Hello again, :)

today I made a new test picture, showing this bug even more clearly than ever before!... (What smiley to use here?... :confused: ... :( ... or... :cool:)

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-F-_YNInwgpc/Tl1NnnT7QlI/AAAAAAAABgU/Nu6FlC_7zrs/s0/DarkFlowers.jpg

If you, Philips... and everyone else of course... could maybe take a look at it again, this time with firmware 140.40!?...
Just watch the picture and turn the sound on and/or off... and watch the problem show itself!...

The appearance of the volume indicator in the upper left corner SHOULD NOT influence the ENTIRE picture!...

Please Philips... fix this bug, please!...

Thanks again in advance!

Freddy

Hi Freddy,

I've tried your test picture and I can see the dimming bug as you described.
My TV is 32pfl9705H and fw is 140.40.

I hope that Philips will solve this bug.

Thank you,
Adamo

Freddy
09-04-2011, 12:02 PM
Hello again, :)

I finally figured out how (part of) the Dynamic Backlight feature works and, even more importantly, why it is causing this subtitle dimming bug. If I do make any mistakes, please feel free to correct me Philips!... ;) Really, please do!...


First of all, the LED Pro Dynamic Backlight function works in three ways:

- it adjusts the intensities of the LED segments according to how bright that part of the picture should be, of course;
- but it also corrects for overly strong intensity differences between neighboring segments, to lessen the halo effect;

- on top of that it uses, what we know as, the Perfect Contrast function (even if you have it disabled), to correct for strong brightness differences within a single segment.


In most cases this works wonders!... Really!

But... the problem is, that this "secret" part of the Perfect Contrast function isn't used gradually when needed, but in the same big steps as we can set it: seemingly Off/Minimum/Medium/Maximum.


Now back to the problem at hand. When you're looking at a rather dim picture, all the LED segments are in their lower states. No correction for neighboring differences is needed and the "secret" Perfect Contrast function is in one of its higher states, to make sure you can still see enough now that the LEDs are dimmed so much.
But then something bright appears, like subtitles. The LED segments behind the subtitles are being intensified, of course. The difference between these bright segments and all the other still dimmed segments is now so big, that the correction part takes care of this in such a way that actually all LED segments are getting just a little bit more intense than before.

This is where I originally thought things went wrong but, even though I don't think the correction should be this drastic, in fact it is still not causing the actual fault. Things go bad in the next step...

Due to the fact that all the segments are made just a little bit more intense, some, or even all of them, go over that edge where the "secret" Perfect Contrast function is working in one of its higher states. So suddenly the "secret" Perfect Contrast in these segments drops from, say Maximum to Medium. Now that is something you will notice!... :(


So to finalize this long story... :p things could be improved drastically, if the internal, so called "secret", Perfect Contrast part of the Dynamic Backlight function would be regulated in much smaller steps than is being done right now. Philips!?... Got a job for me!?... ;)

LocDim
09-28-2011, 10:12 AM
Hi

I have the same problem with the subtitles and dimming on my new 58pfl9956. The local dimming/brightening system seems to work way to aggressively. If what you are saying is correct, this seems to happen on only a few models. I wonder why ? Is this a Philips quality control problem ?

petasis
09-30-2011, 01:40 PM
What is the setting for local dimming in your setup? Can you try with the typical setting?

Freddy
09-30-2011, 03:18 PM
I have the same problem with the subtitles and dimming on my new 58pfl9956.I agree with you that this is kinda disappointing... :( Thanks for letting us know the problem is still there in even the latest models. But... I would try to contact Philips (one of the guys here maybe), point them to this thread and see what they say. The fact that the problem has not been solved yet for even the new series, makes it a current one... again! Philips!?... :confused:

petasis
10-02-2011, 10:09 PM
I don't remember the exact number the problem got introduced, but the first 9705 firmwares didn't have this problem (a small change in a part of the picture affecting the whole picture).

Freddy
10-03-2011, 10:21 AM
I don't remember the exact number the problem got introduced, but the first 9705 firmwares didn't have this problem (a small change in a part of the picture affecting the whole picture).Are you sure about that?...

Because I know for a fact that the problem is there with firmware 140.25 and all versions after that. Older ones I'm not sure about, so I would be interested to know what you seem to remember about this.

petasis
10-03-2011, 10:59 AM
Are you sure about that?...

Because I know for a fact that the problem is there with firmware 140.25 and all versions after that. Older ones I'm not sure about, so I would be interested to know what you seem to remember about this.

Yes. I remember that after a specific update, I was watching the news, and taking photos with flash (by journalists) inside one of news windows (less than half the screen) affected the whole picture. This was not there before this update, but I didn't pay match attention to the version of the update.

I have an 9705 since 16 September 2010, and it came with one among the early firmwares (I think I bought it with 1.75.60.100).

Freddy
10-04-2011, 10:57 AM
I have an 9705 since 16 September 2010, and it came with one among the early firmwares (I think I bought it with 1.75.60.100).My first one also came with that firmware, but I only used it for a couple of days, so I didn't have enough time (or experience at that moment) to fully test it.

But what you're saying is interesting, as 75.60 still had the Christmas Lights Bug, whereas 140.11 fixed that and probably introduced this Subtitle Dimming Bug. So maybe this could give Philips one more clue how to fix this, as both bugs might be slightly related: first one being far too local, second one being too global.

petasis
10-04-2011, 11:54 AM
Yes, the initial firmware had the Christmas lighting bug...
I had forgot about it... ;)

PatrickB
10-12-2011, 07:33 AM
Hi,

I actually have a similar problem with my52pfl8605. I haven't noticed any problem with subtitles in particular but when, the TV displays darker scenes it feels like the picture gets dimmed out and then suddenly snaps out of it. Could the issue be related? If so then it's not limited to the 9 series. I love this TV but I really get a high blood-pressure when I see things like this (and the stupid sound drops outs). I'm running the latest firmware. (.40)


Best,

P

Toengel
10-12-2011, 07:51 AM
Hi,

I can imagine that subtitles are smaller than one backlight zone. This might be a reason for the backlight "problems".

Toengel@Alex

petasis
10-12-2011, 07:54 AM
Hi,

I can imagine that subtitles are smaller than one backlight zone. This might be a reason for the backlight "problems".

Toengel@Alex

No its not that. Subtitle appearance can affect the whole screen, not only the area they appear.

Toengel
10-12-2011, 08:05 AM
Hi,

hmm - now I'm out of options ^^

Toengel@Alex

PatrickB
10-12-2011, 08:15 AM
What does Philips have to say about this? Would be great to know if I should return my TV or hold on to it until a future firmware update.

Thanks,

Patrick

PatrickB
10-13-2011, 08:55 AM
Hi,

I actually have a similar problem with my52pfl8605. I haven't noticed any problem with subtitles in particular but when, the TV displays darker scenes it feels like the picture gets dimmed out and then suddenly snaps out of it. Could the issue be related? If so then it's not limited to the 9 series. I love this TV but I really get a high blood-pressure when I see things like this (and the stupid sound drops outs). I'm running the latest firmware. (.40)


Best,

P

Turing of Dynamic Background Light seems to solve my problem.

Freddy
11-12-2011, 09:24 PM
Hello again,

a month has passed since the last message, more than two months since my final analysis of the problem, almost three months since I posted my latest test screen, four months even since durtro posted his test videos, six months since my previous test picture, more than six months since my first three suggestions to fix this and already eight (that's right: 8!) months since I first reported this really serious problem!... And still the answer is... :( ... What more can I do for you!?... :confused:

Hoping to get in touch soon!

Freddy

petasis
11-13-2011, 06:29 PM
I am also hopping to hear from Philips and better see an update...

Chrissie18
11-13-2011, 07:06 PM
Since I got my 40" 9705 back from the repair (they almost replaced everything) I'm seeing some artifacts with the local dimming, which I didn't noticed before.
Don't know if this is the same as this bug, but now the screen is just dimmed too much around the channel logo.
It is really apparent when the scene is a blue sky: the upper left (place of the logo) is darker...

Freddy
11-13-2011, 09:30 PM
Hey Chris!

Long time no see. When was it again, when we last met!?... :confused: ;)

Now why was it repaired this time?...
Your new problem doesn't sound like a dimming problem to me. Just to test, turn "Dynamic Backlight" Off and see if the problem remains. I guess it will. It sounds to me like the upper left zone itself is bad.

Chrissie18
11-20-2011, 07:05 PM
Hey Chris!

Long time no see. When was it again, when we last met!?... :confused: ;)

Now why was it repaired this time?...
Your new problem doesn't sound like a dimming problem to me. Just to test, turn "Dynamic Backlight" Off and see if the problem remains. I guess it will. It sounds to me like the upper left zone itself is bad.

Hi Freddy,

Sorry for the late reaction, but we had some situations here at home.. Nothing too serious though..

Yeah, it was that great experience I think...
It got repaired again, because the first time they returned it it has 2 darker spots on the screen, so he could unpack the replacement TV.

It is not a defective zone, because it's only there if the overal corner is kinda dark and there is a channel logo there...
Still haven't checked the video's and pictures though.
I'll try to get a video online (any tricks how to: nog YouTube account), as it is very clear when I have the Windows 7 desktop 'characters' with the raving rabits like background and then start something that needs admin rights.
Then you've got the dialog and surrounding this dialog there is a dark halo, which follows the dialog when you drag it.

With normal TV watching I haven't seen it lately, but I haven't seen any series/movies which have a dark upper part which contains the contrast of the channel logo.
Additionally I've set the Dynamic Backlighting from 'Best Power' to 'standard'

To be continued...
Chris

Chrissie18
11-22-2011, 07:16 PM
I'm getting MAD!

It seems this month everything is breaking down...
Last week my SSD decided to go to the SSD-Heaven (or hell) and now that I'm reinstalling my MediaCenter the screen of the TV blanked a couple of times.
I thought this was the 'sound/picture' loss but it took way longer and now also is happening during watching the TV...
Then I tried the pictures and movies found on this thread. And as good and bad as possible between the black-outs I noticed it cannot display the dark volume/flowers, because it is zooming in and then returns to the USB selection dialog (and there goes the picture again...)

With the subtitle dimming movie I do not see a dimming on the top part, but arround the subtitles as they appear, so it IS a different problem.
It also sometimes looks as if the LEDs are overdriven.
The clip IS a good movie to show my problem though, so thanks.

Chris

Freddy
11-22-2011, 09:15 PM
Then I tried the pictures and movies found on this thread. And as good and bad as possible between the black-outs I noticed it cannot display the dark volume/flowers, because it is zooming in and then returns to the USB selection dialog (and there goes the picture again...)It all sounds pretty bad what you're telling... :(
The "dark halo" you described in your previous message does kinda sound like the problem in this thread though. So it would really be interesting to see; could you maybe capture it on video?...

And about the DarkVolume/Flowers: you did pause it (press OK), as soon as the picture appeared?... ;)

Chrissie18
11-23-2011, 07:33 AM
Hi Freddy,

Yeah it is bad...
I kinda had it with (this instance of) this TV. I mean, I really like the design, picture quality and rest, but then it DOES need to work...
This morning I've counted that it has been - in total - more or less a month at the repairs. Three times.. I'm thinking this one is fubar...

I will try to make any video's and post them.
I think the dimming issue has to do with the new panel they've put in my TV. It did improve the viewing angle (it used to be terrible if you would move only a couple degrees from the centre, now only the colours get a bit less when looking at it at a very large angle), but the changes in backlight intensity has been increased and I don't like that...

To be continued....
Chris

Freddy
11-23-2011, 11:14 AM
I kinda had it with (this instance of) this TV. I mean, I really like the design, picture quality and rest, but then it DOES need to work...I can really understand how you're feeling... :(

Regarding the new panel: most of the time it's possible to peek through the ventilation holes at the back to see a sticker somewhere with a number, usually beginning with "TFT-LCD". The number after that tells you what panel they used, so if you can find that number, you could see if it is (at least on paper :p) the correct one.

P.S.: I've just noticed this is post #100 for me!... 630

Chrissie18
11-23-2011, 07:15 PM
Hi Freddy,

First of all congrats with your 100th post (I'm almost there... ;) )
I couldn't find the number, I did noticed that I could see a print (electronics) on the top. Didn't thought that was there, but then again, never looked that good at the back-top of the TV...
Is the number the same as the 12NC number found in the '123654 menu'?

I did managed to get some video's. Only got SkyDrive, so the links are down here:

Subtitle:

https://skydrive.live.com/redir.aspx?cid=459fd748a746ebe0&page=play&resid=459FD748A746EBE0!233

DarkFlower:

https://skydrive.live.com/redir.aspx?cid=459fd748a746ebe0&page=play&resid=459FD748A746EBE0!235

Admin desktop fade:

https://skydrive.live.com/redir.aspx?cid=459fd748a746ebe0&page=play&resid=459FD748A746EBE0!237

Because of the auto camera settings, the light is faded sometimes, which makes some things a bit worse than they are, but the darkflower IS actually that bad. The backlight IS fading slowly from light to dark or vice versa.
The admin stuff is far worse 'in real life': you reallly see a dark cloud following the dialog.

This new screen that is replaced during the repair may have a better viewing angle (see also the end of the subtitle), but I rather have the old (worse) viewing angle, but enjoy the great backlight experience than what I have now.

When I came home I continued installing my PC and again the picture was gone. This time it was more gone than available, so I called support, which said that it is within 3months of the repair (reapair guarantee), so I could/should contact the repair service and discuss with them how to handle this situation.
And now the screen is on for an hour without one drop so far (knock on wood)....

Chris

Freddy
11-24-2011, 07:09 PM
Is the number the same as the 12NC number found in the '123654 menu'?
It should start with LKxxxxxxx.



I did managed to get some video's.

[...]

Because of the auto camera settings, the light is faded sometimes, which makes some things a bit worse than they are, but the darkflower IS actually that bad. The backlight IS fading slowly from light to dark or vice versa.
The admin stuff is far worse 'in real life': you reallly see a dark cloud following the dialog.
I looked at your video's and, while they seem quite a bit worse than over here, the general effect is the same.
It just seems that in your case the overall light output gets far too high at times. For example, does DarkFlowers really look that bright on your screen!?... I mean, it's called Dark for a reason.
Just to rule things out: how are Contrast, Brightness, Perfect Contrast, Colour Enhancement and Gamma set?...

Chrissie18
11-25-2011, 04:04 PM
It should start with LKxxxxxxx.


I looked at your video's and, while they seem quite a bit worse than over here, the general effect is the same.
It just seems that in your case the overall light output gets far too high at times. For example, does DarkFlowers really look that bright on your screen!?... I mean, it's called Dark for a reason.
Just to rule things out: how are Contrast, Brightness, Perfect Contrast, Colour Enhancement and Gamma set?...

I would love to check it again, but - allas - now the TV almost died completely: The backlight manages to get past the "Philips" logo and then dies. No tricks to fix this so I cannot check.
Will try tomorrow, but I do not think it will get any picture.

But I do think you're right that the LEDs just get too much intensity.
Now I'm back with the small Sharp from the bedroom again... :(

Chris

Freddy
12-07-2011, 02:22 PM
For Sinterklaas a little belated,
for Christmas a bit too snappy,
for Philips a present they waited
for, so I hope they're happy!


DarkLadyHawke2.mpg - 82.8 MB (http://uploading.com/files/4c8cm18m/DarkLadyHawke2.mpg/) :p

My new test is... once again... a scene from a movie, this time one from the 80's called LadyHawke (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ladyhawke). It's a nice fantasy adventure, full of somewhat darker scenes, so I guess you know what happened... Throughout the ENTIRE movie, every time a subtitle appeared or disappeared again, the brightness of the screen went down or up.

Not only did this happen in the scenes we all have come to fear by now: dark or misty ones. It even happened in SNOW scenes!... And in those scenes it wasn't just bad, it was TERRIBLE!

The video fragment I uploaded contains such a scene. Look at the brightness of the snow itself or look at the sky and... weep!... Weep that a tv of this class can look SO INCREDIBLY BAD!!!...


Please Philips, my final plea this year, give us a Christmas present too!...

Freddy

durtro
12-07-2011, 07:36 PM
For Sinterklaas a little belated,
for Christmas a bit too snappy,
for Philips a present they waited
for, so I hope they're happy!


DarkLadyHawke2.mpg - 82.8 MB (http://uploading.com/files/4c8cm18m/DarkLadyHawke2.mpg/) :p

My new test is... once again... a scene from a movie, this time one from the 80's called LadyHawke (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ladyhawke). It's a nice fantasy adventure, full of somewhat darker scenes, so I guess you know what happened... Throughout the ENTIRE movie, every time a subtitle appeared or disappeared again, the brightness of the screen went down or up.

Not only did this happen in the scenes we all have come to fear by now: dark or misty ones. It even happened in SNOW scenes!... And in those scenes it wasn't just bad, it was TERRIBLE!

The video fragment I uploaded contains such a scene. Look at the brightness of the snow itself or look at the sky and... weep!... Weep that a tv of this class can look SO INCREDIBLY BAD!!!...


Please Philips, my final plea this year, give us a Christmas present too!...

Freddy

The snowy backgrounds are prime examples of the picture flashing in brightness but I've seen worse especially with anime sources. As I said before the effect is worse when there is a homogeneous colored background, in your example snow. Other examples are fog or even office interiors and so on. When light gray office walls are present with people talking in the foreground the slow head movement suffices to make the walls blink in brightness. Very annoying indeed and the reason why in many cases I simply disable the dynamic backlight.

durtro
12-09-2011, 08:52 AM
Just to state that the problem is still there in 140.44 firmware.

Adamo
01-13-2012, 11:21 PM
Hi,

I've updated my TV with the firmware ver.140.46 (32pfl9705h).

I've checked the movie sample that Freddy has posted on the forum (DarkLadyHawke2 and SubtitleDimming) and the dimming problem is almost undetectable. There are some little screen luminosity variation but the whole bad effect has gone away.

Philips did a very good job!

Regards,
Adamo

P.S.
Now I hope that Philips will solve the "film credits" (end of a movie) dimming problem.

P.P.S.
...and thanks to Freddy! ;)

Chrissie18
01-14-2012, 09:22 AM
I must agree to that!
Let's see if there are more nice things in the upcoming firmware releases! :D

Chris.

Tech-UK
01-14-2012, 11:30 AM
I am running .25 firmware, and I will only upgrade if this has been fixed. How does the overall picture quality rate in the new firmware release? And as for the post credits, that is another problem which I don't like, plus the opening scene in Star Wars with the floating text in space is just horrible to watch with this problem. Would anyone mind trying the Blu-ray and reporting back? Thanks! I take it that you guys have the dynamic backlight setting to one of the options other than off?

Freddy
01-14-2012, 01:42 PM
Hi guys! :)

That really sounds promising! Can others (with a 32" PFL9705) confirm that this Subtitle Dimming Problem has been (as good as) solved now?... I'm just asking to be sure it's not just one lucky guy (Adamo) :p where it is solved. And Chris has a 40" so... Please 32" owners: REPORT YOUR FINDINGS!

And Tech-UK: I'm in the same boat as you. Also still a bit reluctant to update... And yes, we all have Dynamic Backlight at either Standard or Best Picture... most of the time, that is.

And regarding that other "film credits (end of a movie) dimming problem" Adamo was talking about: could you describe exactly what you mean?... I think I know, but others might not...

So... to conclude: I can't wait to hear reports from other 32" PFL9705 owners!... :cool:

Freddy

Toengel
01-14-2012, 01:51 PM
Hi,

let me try to explain ;-)

The credits appear from the bottom to the top. And the text lines are smaller than the LED segments. So, if one text line moves from one LED segment row to the next above, the backlight dimming becomes lighter/darker... some kind of slowly blinking.

Is this the "film credit dimming problem"?

Toengel@Alex

ali54
01-14-2012, 04:06 PM
freddy and tech-uk
i can tell you the pictuer of all updates after 0.25 is no more inky that is a same with 0.46

Tech-UK
01-14-2012, 05:39 PM
@Toengel - Yes thats it. Even worse when the text is a colour other than white.

@ali54 - Sorry but I do not understand what you just wrote ;):confused:.

ali54
01-14-2012, 07:11 PM
@Toengel - Yes thats it. Even worse when the text is a colour other than white.

@ali54 - Sorry but I do not understand what you just wrote ;):confused:.

with all updates from 0.27 to 0.46 you will loos the inky pictuer how avere you can try the new updates and if you dont like it you can go back 0.25

Tech-UK
01-14-2012, 07:40 PM
I have just tried .46, the dimming problem is still there with me. Although it isn't as aggressive. To be honest, I think .46 has a more stable picture than .25, I don't think the difference in PQ is that noticeable. It is quiet difficult to tell, when you cannot compare them side by side :p.

Freddy
01-14-2012, 09:45 PM
I have just tried .46, the dimming problem is still there with me.
Disappointing... :( But expected, that it's not the same for everyone. :confused:
Just to be sure: what dimming problem is still there exactly (Subtitle Dimming Problem, or Scrolling Credits Problem)?...


Although it isn't as aggressive. To be honest, I think .46 has a more stable picture than .25,
Interesting. What do you mean with "more stable"?...


I don't think the difference in PQ is that noticeable. It is quiet difficult to tell, when you cannot compare them side by side :p.

Tech-UK
01-15-2012, 11:01 AM
@Freddy, the subtitle dimming problem is still there, tested with 13 Assassins and Inglourious Basterds Blu-ray's. Its so distracting :mad:. Like I said its hard to say when I do not have two displays running .25 and .46 ;) side by side to obverse, but I think the changes made from .25 to the current FW has enhanced the dynamic backlight, but I maybe talking rubbish :o.

Chrissie18
01-15-2012, 07:18 PM
@Freddy, the subtitle dimming problem is still there, tested with 13 Assassins and Inglourious Basterds Blu-ray's. Its so distracting :mad:. Like I said its hard to say when I do not have two displays running .25 and .46 ;) side by side to obverse, but I think the changes made from .25 to the current FW has enhanced the dynamic backlight, but I maybe talking rubbish :o.

Hi,

Just a question: Did you had your TV repaired? And when they repaired it, did they replaced the screen?
Because after the repair I had the worst 'subtitle' effect as described. With my original (bought august/september 2010) I didn't have it at all, only the backlight halo effect with the 'ending clock' of the 24 series.
Also with the new model I do not experience the effect as distracting...

Chris.

Tech-UK
01-15-2012, 07:26 PM
Hi,

Just a question: Did you had your TV repaired? And when they repaired it, did they replaced the screen?
Because after the repair I had the worst 'subtitle' effect as described. With my original (bought august/september 2010) I didn't have it at all, only the backlight halo effect with the 'ending clock' of the 24 series.
Also with the new model I do not experience the effect as distracting...

Chris.

Hello Chris

My TV is a week 39, but I didn't buy it brand new, so I could not tell you if the screen has been changed. Is there a way to tell? A number/ID of some sort?

Thanks.

Freddy
01-15-2012, 08:41 PM
Hello Chris

My TV is a week 39, but I didn't buy it brand new, so I could not tell you if the screen has been changed. Is there a way to tell? A number/ID of some sort?

Thanks.
I hope Chris didn't ruin your Sunday by making you worry about this... :p I wouldn't worry about it, because Chris' dimming problems with his dying 40" were a lot worse than they are on our "normal" :rolleyes: 32". And that is while most of the 40/46" have less of a dimming problem than the 32", so...

Adamo
01-15-2012, 08:52 PM
Hi,

let me try to explain ;-)

The credits appear from the bottom to the top. And the text lines are smaller than the LED segments. So, if one text line moves from one LED segment row to the next above, the backlight dimming becomes lighter/darker... some kind of slowly blinking.

Is this the "film credit dimming problem"?

Toengel@Alex

@Toengel
Yes, it is!

@All
I've also checked "FOX" channel (SKY HD decoder - subtitles enabled) and I can confirm that I don't have the dimming problem.

Regards,
Adamo

Freddy
01-15-2012, 09:00 PM
It's really strange how you're experiencing such big improvements and Tech-UK still has the same problem... :confused:

Could you maybe also test my DarkFlowers test picture (instead of a video):

http://www.supportforum.philips.com/en/showthread.php?1265-Dimming-problem-every-time-subtitles-appear-on-32PFL9705&p=11442&viewfull=1#post11442

That may show us if it really has been solved in your case or just improved, depending on the source.

Exciting, isn't it!?... :p

Adamo
01-15-2012, 09:44 PM
Hi Freddy,

With the test picture I still have the dimming problem.
Maybe Philips add a trick only for the lower screen area or it depends by the source as you said.
I don't know. Maybe I'm just lucky...

Adamo

P.S. My picture settings are:
PNM: minimum
Dynamic Backlight: standard
Smart picture: Natural

Freddy
01-15-2012, 09:47 PM
Hmmm... :confused:
How's your Gamma?...

Adamo
01-15-2012, 09:52 PM
Gamma: +1

Freddy
01-15-2012, 09:58 PM
Could it be that you had that set higher in the past?...

I ask, because when I lowered Gamma from +2 to +1, I also noticed that the Subtitle Dimming Problem, while still happening just as often, was not as noticeable as before.

So the higher the Gamma, the bigger the Subtitle Dimming Problem.

Adamo
01-15-2012, 10:11 PM
I've just tried selecting Gamma=+3 and I've just a little bit screen luminosity variation (very, very little and for the whole screen) but not the dimming problem.

I've just watched again your video (Subtitle:
https://skydrive.live.com/redir.aspx...48A746EBE0!233) and I've not the darker area around the subtitle as your video shows.

Freddy
01-15-2012, 10:29 PM
That video shows the extremely bad results Chris had after his last "repair". :rolleyes: That darker area directly around the subtitles isn't there on any healthy 32/40/46". The darkening effect it has on the picture parts farther away from the subtitles is there however...

It remains a mystery... Or did I mean misery!?... :p

Tech-UK
01-16-2012, 11:13 AM
I hope Chris didn't ruin your Sunday by making you worry about this... :p I wouldn't worry about it, because Chris' dimming problems with his dying 40" were a lot worse than they are on our "normal" :rolleyes: 32". And that is while most of the 40/46" have less of a dimming problem than the 32", so...

hehe, no he didn't :). Btw mine is the 40".


It's really strange how you're experiencing such big improvements and Tech-UK still has the same problem... :confused:

Could you maybe also test my DarkFlowers test picture (instead of a video):

http://www.supportforum.philips.com/en/showthread.php?1265-Dimming-problem-every-time-subtitles-appear-on-32PFL9705&p=11442&viewfull=1#post11442

That may show us if it really has been solved in your case or just improved, depending on the source.

Exciting, isn't it!?... :p

I will try your tests, perhaps tonight.

petasis
01-16-2012, 07:15 PM
My impression is that the dimming problem has been slightly improved with 140.45, but with 140.46 is back again (as was in 140.44).

Chrissie18
01-17-2012, 07:55 AM
Hello Chris

My TV is a week 39, but I didn't buy it brand new, so I could not tell you if the screen has been changed. Is there a way to tell? A number/ID of some sort?

Thanks.

Hi,

Good to hear I didn;t ruin it.. ;)
So I'm now just assuming that the guys just did a (one time?) lousy job on my repair...
I actually don't know how to check it.

Yesterday I again enjoyed my current 40" watching The Dark Knight Blu-ray, without any artifacts or whatsoever...
Nothing to complain.. It's actually refreshing... ;)

Greets,
Chris

Freddy
01-17-2012, 03:01 PM
So to sum things up till now:

Adamo 32": reports it as being improved a lot
Chris 40": reports it as being solved (Really solved? Also with my test pictures and videos?)
Tech-UK 40": reports it as being just as bad as before
petasis 46": reports it as being just as bad or even worse

How can this be!?... Are we seeing things differently?... :( Is the firmware acting as a lottery: who's winning and who's not!?... :p Or are there really differences between different series of the same tv?... :confused:
Please Philips, enlighten us. Do you guys know about this problem?... Do you know what causes it?... Is it the same for everyone, or not?... Can it be solved?... Will it be solved?... Are you working on it?... Please give us something to keep us going...

Tech-UK
01-17-2012, 05:29 PM
@Freddy +1.

I have gone back to .25 FW until this is solved. I literally cannot watch any film that has subtitles throughout because it is so distracting. Thats the problem with TV's today, large amount of features = more complexity. I didn't pay for features I paid for performance. Which is why I think my next TV will be a PDP. There is no denying that the PFL9705 is a great performer, it is, but could it be better? I think so.

durtro
01-18-2012, 08:53 PM
So to sum things up till now:

Adamo 32": reports it as being improved a lot
Chris 40": reports it as being solved (Really solved? Also with my test pictures and videos?)
Tech-UK 40": reports it as being just as bad as before
petasis 46": reports it as being just as bad or even worse

How can this be!?... Are we seeing things differently?... :( Is the firmware acting as a lottery: who's winning and who's not!?... :p Or are there really differences between different series of the same tv?... :confused:
Please Philips, enlighten us. Do you guys know about this problem?... Do you know what causes it?... Is it the same for everyone, or not?... Can it be solved?... Will it be solved?... Are you working on it?... Please give us something to keep us going...

Don't notice any improvement. As before some sources are painful to watch with backlight on and subtitles, especially anime ones. Can provide image frames that make my whole screen blink with the mouse pointer appearance. As such I have my custom settings with backlight off for those cases.

Usually there is no big problems with 1080p sources which have wider image ratios and thus permit subtitles to be on the black borders. HDTV sources that fill the whole panel are much worse with subtitles and even without them in some cases. In some series scenes with closeups on a homogeneous colored backgrounds there is a visible "blinking" in that same background. An example is someone talking with a office gray wall behind where the simple facial movement make the wall "blink".

Tech-UK
01-19-2012, 12:46 PM
The backlight algorithm is too aggresive, no matter what setting you have it on (apart from off). Like you said, its not just subtitles that make the whole picture dim, it can be someone moving their head!

Freddy
01-22-2012, 01:26 PM
More than 80 replies and 7000 views!!!... Woohoo!!! http://members.chello.nl/h.h.j.f.beens/temp/woooohoooo.gif
And how many from Philips!?... Boehoeoe... http://members.chello.nl/h.h.j.f.beens/temp/bigsad.gif

Freddy
02-01-2012, 12:23 PM
Over the past couple of weeks I watched two movies that deserve, I think, a special place in this thread...

First of all a compliment for Philips. Yes, that's right, you heard me... :p
I watched Avatar, complete with subtitles, and it looked amazing! :o No problems, just a perfect picture!
So far the compliment... :rolleyes:

Yesterday I watched Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire. :( Has anyone from Philips ever watched this movie on one of your own top models?... :confused: Were you proud?...
Every time something bright (not just subtitles) appeared anywhere on the screen, the rest of the screen suddenly turned dim. It really did seem like magic!... :eek: And you know the state "he" was in when he said that, don't you?...
I really must say, this was the worst example I have ever seen!... If it wasn't for the quality of the movie itself, it would have ruined my evening. Especially the scene where they went into the maze was horrible! :mad:

Please Philips, this really can't be!

Cinema 21:9
02-01-2012, 01:45 PM
The theme is indeed the 2011 models.
It's amazing that Philips silent death despite such great customer feedback this topic and ignored!

(Google Translator)

Freddy
02-04-2012, 12:56 PM
Just for those interested (i.e. not Philips :p).

Since the results with the Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire Blu-ray were so bad that they made me start to think about disabling Local Dimming completely, forever... :( I decided to try a few other things first.

For TV I always use the "Standard" Dynamic Backlight setting, whereas for DVD/Blu-ray I use "Best Picture", because of its higher Motion Sharpness. First I tried the only other setting: "Best Power". This made dark pictures darker and bright pictures brighter, but the dimming artifacts remained the same, just as with "Best Picture".

So then, as a final resort, I tried "Standard" also for Blu-ray and this time the picture itself didn't change much, if at all (Contrast lowered by 1 and Motion Sharpness a little bit less, but also less double contours), but the dimming artifacts, while all still there, were not as obvious and a bit less in numbers.

To conclude: the "Best" settings are in fact the worst when it comes to dimming artifacts. "Standard" is quite a bit better! Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire is no longer horrible, it's just bad now... :rolleyes:

petasis
02-06-2012, 06:37 PM
I use standard for anything, for quite some time now...

Sofus
02-09-2012, 09:36 PM
Waiting (in vain) for new firmware that corrects all local dimming artefacts. Anybody noticed that local dimming even (negatively) affects still pictures? But it is a great feature too, amazing blackness and bright details in the same scene ...

Vilnix
02-27-2012, 05:10 PM
Just made a movie which illustrate the problem very good, just hit the youtube link ;-)

hit (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QR_Fv10A4OQ)

Sofus
02-27-2012, 08:08 PM
The 9000 series TVs are faaaar better than other/ordinary TVs. Even with local dimming off (just don't sit in a completely darkened room or have ambilight on). Philips never advertise(d) the feature as perfect. But we can still hope it'll be fixed, because it is annoying in greyish scenes.

Vilnix
02-27-2012, 08:17 PM
The 9000 series TVs are faaaar better than other/ordinary TVs. Even with local dimming off (just don't sit in a completely darkened room or have ambilight on). Philips never advertise(d) the feature as perfect. But we can still hope it'll be fixed, because it is annoying in greyish scenes.
They do advertise there 'LED PRO' series with the deepest blacks, and that's what you want for 4000Ä, but it's not what you get...

Freddy
02-27-2012, 09:17 PM
Thanks Vilnix for showing us the problem once more. Philips?... Are you listening?... :rolleyes:

It's especially helpful as this shows that even the 9955 has this problem. Apparently the complete 2010 LED Pro range (32/40/46PFL9705 & 58PFL9955), plus the 2011 58PFL9956 have the Subtitle Dimming PROBLEM! Yes it is a PROBLEM Philips, in case you didn't realize... :p

I'm just starting to wonder WHY there are still no reports from either 2009 LED Pro 40/46/52PFL9704 or 2011 40/52PFL9606 & 46PFL9706 owners? As these are all using the same LED Pro dimming system, they should in principle have the same problem. Or in case they don't, Philips should know how they did it and fix ours... I'm waiting!...

GeorgeN
02-27-2012, 09:39 PM
Hi there,

I accidentally saw this topic while searching for another issue.
The problem exists for smaller models too.
I wave a 40PFL7605H/12 purchased on April 2011
Unfortunately it is one of many other things that do not work ok on Philips TVs...

Regards

GeorgeN

Freddy
02-28-2012, 09:11 AM
Hi George,

thanks for letting us know. It is, however, not surprising that you're experiencing the same on your PFL7605, as the 7605 only has Global Dimming, so it is kinda logical that the whole screen reacts when bright subtitles appear.
For the 9000 series, on the other hand, it is simply unnecessary and, quite frankly, a very weird way of making a true Local Dimming system more Global in nature!?... :( WHY!!!???...

ali54
02-28-2012, 09:03 PM
my 9705 dont have any dimming problem its just perfect pictuer

Tech-UK
03-01-2012, 10:02 AM
my 9705 dont have any dimming problem its just perfect pictuer

What are your settings ali? Another problem I have noticed seems to relate to the Christmas tree light problem, where in a scene with fog, mist, low light and a moving object, the backlight goes crazy and seems as if it cannot make up its mind, whether to dim or light, but I have only noticed it when this type of picture is displayed. Plus on another note, my top row ambilight is lighting up very blue, I have it set to cool white for bias lighting purposes but the top row seems to be bluer than the sides, very distracting!

ali54
03-01-2012, 10:54 AM
im useing 0.46 softwear and cinama preset for watching blurays

bugmenot
03-10-2012, 08:09 AM
Thanks Vilnix for showing us the problem once more. Philips?... Are you listening?... :rolleyes:

It's especially helpful as this shows that even the 9955 has this problem. Apparently the complete 2010 LED Pro range (32/40/46PFL9705 & 58PFL9955), plus the 2011 58PFL9956 have the Subtitle Dimming PROBLEM! Yes it is a PROBLEM Philips, in case you didn't realize... :p

I'm just starting to wonder WHY there are still no reports from either 2009 LED Pro 40/46/52PFL9704 or 2011 40/52PFL9606 & 46PFL9706 owners? As these are all using the same LED Pro dimming system, they should in principle have the same problem. Or in case they don't, Philips should know how they did it and fix ours... I'm waiting!...

The problem is there on 46PFL9706T. I actually came to this thread because of another backlight related problem but I can see what you describe on your video. I suppose I will be keeping the Dynamic Backlight Off.

It's kind of sad that I can't find a TV without a some kind of eye-catching problem. The Bravia I bought in 2007 might have been only HD Ready and not have great blacks, but when I had it, I could concentrate on the content instead of the TV's quirks.

The Edge-Lit Samsung I bought after that the Bravia had actually the opposite problem that bugged me. With global dimming I was actually bugged by subs going dark when the rest of the scene was black.

---

For those interested:
The reason I came to this thread was because I was watching Grey's Anatomy. In a scene with a woman lying still in bed the bottom and top rows were dimming intermittently. However, just now the problems seems to have solved itself, maybe because I turned the TV off and on.

-DiamondTear

Freddy
03-10-2012, 09:44 AM
Thanks bugmenot for being the first with a 46PFL9706 to report this problem! It doesn't surprise me... :rolleyes:

By the way, just to keep things as clear as possible for us and Philips, when you say:

"The problem is there on 46PFL9706T. [...] I can see what you describe on your video."

Could you tell me what it is exactly that you see and using which video, as more videos were posted in this thread over time?...

Thanks again in advance! :)

And Philips!?... Does this mean anything to you?... Please let us know you are there. :(

bugmenot
03-12-2012, 01:43 PM
Thanks bugmenot for being the first with a 46PFL9706 to report this problem! It doesn't surprise me... :rolleyes:

By the way, just to keep things as clear as possible for us and Philips, when you say:

"The problem is there on 46PFL9706T. [...] I can see what you describe on your video."

Could you tell me what it is exactly that you see and using which video, as more videos were posted in this thread over time?...

Thanks again in advance! :)

And Philips!?... Does this mean anything to you?... Please let us know you are there. :(

Upper corner of the screen dimming/brighting up when subs appear and disappear in the SubtitleDimming.mpg

Freddy
03-12-2012, 02:40 PM
Thanks again! :) I added the 9706 to the opening post.

buyukbang
07-31-2012, 06:05 AM
I've this issue with my 52PFL9606. I tried 0.98 and the latest 0.99 firmwares, both gives the same result.

buyukbang
07-31-2012, 06:51 AM
Default Cinema Mod uses "Dynamic Backlight" as disabled. So you cannot see this issue, and you cannot use Local Dimming feature of your high end TV.

I'm also using Cinema Mod, but I set "Dynamic Backlight" to standart manually without any other modfication in this mod. I can observe this issue with this settings.


im useing 0.46 softwear and cinama preset for watching blurays

Freddy
08-15-2012, 03:47 PM
I've this issue with my 52PFL9606. I tried 0.98 and the latest 0.99 firmwares, both gives the same result.
Thanks for letting us know! I added both the 40" and the 52" PFL9606 to the opening post.
I think it is safe to say by now that no solution is to be expected anymore for any of the series suffering from these problems... Why?... If only I knew.