View Full Version : Why Philips TV is not W7 certified?
04-06-2011, 11:34 AM
What is missing from DLNA Philips TV to be W7 certified?.
“When you’re on the hunt for a new HD TV, keep an eye out for a new badge: the Windows 7 certified logo. It’s a seal of approval from Microsoft that means the Toshiba telly you’re looking at is a talented media streamer, and that it’s one seriously connected screen.
Play To your TV
There are plenty of DLNA gadgets around these days. What that Windows 7 badge on the Toshiba HD TV you’re eyeing up signifies is that it’s a flatscreen that integrates with the technology Microsoft has built on top of DLNA connectivity. Any other DLNA device will connect without a hitch, but it’s an added level of assurance for those who like an easy setup - which is all of us, surely.
Windows 7 certified TVs
To earn the coveted badge, TVs have to allow for both wired and wireless net connectivity, so streaming is guaranteed to work wherever you choose to play them in the home".
“You can use Windows Media Player as your DLNA server software. It’s pre-installed, and can find and identify your music and video collection making it simple to stream it to your TV. In addition to standard DLNA features, Windows 7 can push music or video to other DLNA certified devices with a feature called Play To.
There are plenty of other DLNA server software options besides Windows Media Player and Windows Media Centre (which can also act as DVR), but Microsoft’s solution is already on your computer, available at no extra charge, and easy to use”.
It welcomes any comments.
04-06-2011, 11:50 AM
there are plenty of certifications available. But why should they implement all of them? DNLA 1.5 certification is a good level...
04-06-2011, 12:33 PM
Yes.. DLNA 1.5 certification is a good level.
But… DLNA 1.5 certified + W7 certified is better. ¿No?.
So… What is missing from DLNA Philips TV to be W7 certified?.
W7 is not a “plenty of certifications available”. In this case, it is the most important certified after DLNA 1.5
04-06-2011, 01:27 PM
I'm not sure what you want to say. Is there additional functionality that has to be supported to get the W7 certificate? The described "Play To" feature works with my Philips TV. I think this feature is part of DLNA 1.5 standard and if the Windows Media Player implements it and Philips implements is, it should work.
Do you want to have just an additional logo on the TV, that will also cost? What is the additional benefit when you have that certificate?
If there is a certificate from Microsoft, that certifies the DLNA specified functionality is working with this product, shouldn't be there a certificate from Philips, that certifies that WMP works with Philips TVs? Shouldn't there be a certificate from Apple, that certifies, that DLNA specified features are working with Apple iOS? Maybe Linux should also create such certificates?
What a luck to have so many standards ;-).
Standards and certificates are important to make devices work together among the device manufacturers. Not sure why the manufacturers should certify each other.
Why is the W7 certificate important? It is just one from one software company.
DLNA is a standard, you can't compare the W7 certificate with a standard!
04-06-2011, 01:30 PM
To be more precise, DLNA is one standard, that should make it obsolete, that each software/hardware company has to certify each other that their products are working together. Just imagine, every DLNA supporting company would create their own logo and certification...
04-06-2011, 01:47 PM
we should first list what the differences between DLNA 1.5 and W7 certificate are...
04-07-2011, 08:40 AM
I have more questions than answers. This is the reason I started this thread with questions to see if he could find some answers.
I would like to know if there is another TV that works better than Philips TV via DLNA. I would like that Philips TV improve via DLNA.
Philips TV Media Client is a DLNA 1.5 certified.
W7 Media Server is a DLNA 1.5 certified.
Toshiba Media Client is DLNA 1.5 and W7 certified: not only complies with DLNA protocol, but it ensures integration with W7 via DLNA.
Would improve Philips TV if would be W7 certified?. I do not know. But I wish it were certified, because it represents an additional guarantee that Philips TV will be integrated with W7. It is a guarantee for all Windows users, which are numerically most.
What is missing from DLNA Philips TV to be W7 certified?.
It is ONLY a problem of cost? I do not know, but I do not think it is ONLY a problem of cost. Philips may be forced to improve via DLNA if were W7 certified.
DLNA compliance with the protocol does not guarantee that the user experience is satisfactory. Toengel As you know, and we all know, choose either a Media Server is very important to be satisfied via DLNA, but choosing the right Media Client is no less important. W7 Media Server is assurance an integrated multimedia quality, and W7 certified ensure that Philips TV has been tested to work reliably with W7 via DLNA.
In short, I wonder: Why Philps TV is Not W7 certified, and Toshiba TV yes?.
04-07-2011, 09:20 AM
@Jomsp: Do you experience problems when using Windows 7 Media Player as MediaServer and your Philips TV?
04-07-2011, 09:45 AM
My experience is reasonably satisfactory in 80% of cases.
In the 20% that is not so successful, I guess that is compatible codec problems, but these are “a world” and more under DLNA.
As far as possible, it seems best to avoid transcoding.
I would like that Philips TV expand and improve codec support via DLNA.
What is your experience?
Do you know DLNA Toshiba TV?.
04-07-2011, 02:24 PM
Before buying a Philips TV, I also read specifications and advertisements of the Toshiba TVs. I know, that they have a W7 certificate and that they support this "Play to"-feature. But I never used that feature in reality with a Toshiba TV.
Basically it was not clear to me, what this advertisement want to say. I can use the "Play to" feature with my Philips TV, because this is part of DLNA standard when a device provides a DLNA Media Renderer in the network, that is my understanding currently. So what do they want to tell me?
This seemed to me, that this is just a well colored logo, telling things that I expect to work.
There are so many standards, where there are no additional certificates necessary to have different devices of different manufacturers working together all over the industries without certifying each other: Ethernet, WLAN, USB, SATA, PCI, CAN, Flexray, HTML, HTTP, ODF, PCMCIA, HDMI, DisplayPort, ...
But if there are additional features bringing more user value, it would be a kind of a separate standard, then I would also recommend to implement them.
I know, that there are codecs or even some settings of codecs, that Philips TVs do not support. This is a pity, I wish that every codec in the world is supported. I don't like that transcoding, it is time consuming. But I think, that this won't improve by getting the W7 certificate. I assume that also Toshiba does not support every setting and every codec, there are too many.
So I want more codecs and codec flavors supported, via USB, DLNA, Web and so on.
04-07-2011, 04:55 PM
I think, one has to know what the certification includes.
1. Yes, There are a lot of people with a W7 computer who will be streaming media to their TVs; and It would be much easier to know for sure that anything that they can play on the computer will play on the TV; but will all the format's native to the TV play without transcoding, and if transcoding is done will the least burdensome format and best resolution be selected automatically. If the answers to these are psoitive than it is well worth it; because I want to spend my time watching a video, - not searching/testing various media servers, trying to figure out what codecs or combinations the TV plays etc. (or reading and writing at forums!)
Also for any one who thinks that just a logo saying certified is enough :
2. I have gone through the DLNA website looking for my mode 58PFL9955H;
It only fulfills the mandatory requirements with none of the optional profiles. Thus, as long as you have the necessary codecs setup on your Windows 7 computer, you can watch pretty much anything on the TV even if it is transcoded. However this is not enough!, at least not for the money I paid for my set.
If you have any files that needs to be transcoded for Philips to play them; Philips TV picks up only the versions submitted by Windows Media Player that conform to their DLNA certification; i.e. you can be proud of watching a 1080p video file at PAL resolution! Gerat, well done.
Another issue with Philips and WMP is that the "Mime list" broadcast by Philips TV is not matching what WMP MMM extensions expect; at least for some mimes. Thus you end streaming some natively supported (tested by playing same file from USB stick) files transcoded to low resolution.
You may alternatively turn off transcoding for Philips TV from windows registry; but then the files that actually beed to be transcoded don't get transcoded. So it is far from an ideal solution.
Therefore I don't think that W7 certification is the issue but providing support for a larger set of DLNA protocols is. Just check out the UX600 DLNA certificate. Atleast it has a couple of HD profiles!
04-08-2011, 11:48 AM
Smart and aslanpak, congratulations for your comments.
aslanpak, welcome. To be your first contribution is nothing. I await your further comments with great interest.
“Philips TV DLNA certified, only fulfills the mandatory requirements with none of the optional profiles”.
Okay, DLNA certified does not guarantee customer satisfaction.
“With Philips and WMP is that the "Mime list" broadcast by Philips TV is not matching what WMP MMM extensions expect; at least for some mimes. Thus you end streaming some natively supported files transcoded to low resolution”.
Windows 7 certified, would probably lead to solve these problems.
“Therefore I don't think that W7 certification is the issue but providing support for a larger set of DLNA protocols is. Just check out the UX600 DLNA certificate. At least it has a couple of HD profiles”.
W7 certified may not require to extend the profiles of high definition, and may not require firmware upgrade to add more profiles in the future, as they are supported by Windows. W7 certified guess not force it, but I do believe that MS is committed to providing more and better support high-definition standards (see, for example IE9), and Toshiba, being W7 certified, may be better placed to advance direction to satisfy the customer who wants more and better quality.
“reading and writing at forums”
Given the state of things, I think that there is no choice but to read and write in the forums, if we want to know how to improve our situation as customers. So take this opportunity to thank Philips the opportunity to participate in this forum.
As if that is of interest, the list of TV-To-Play Devices with W7 certificied is: http://www.microsoft.com/windows/compatibility/windows-7/en-us/Browse.aspx?type=Hardware&category=TV%20Devices&subcategory=Play%20To%20TV%20Devices&showallcats=true&page=1
04-11-2011, 12:13 PM
"Transcoding: PlayTO always sends the lowest resolution element as the main element (that is because the device may not handle the highest one and it may crash), but we want them to be smart enough and choose another one if they can handle it (if they know they could support a higher resolution they can go for it). This is a specific request in the Windows Logo Program, if you look for WLK certified devices".
"DLNA does not define all the formats that you can find on the market (mkv and divx are not included in DLNA). So space is too wide and you cannot please everyone. Also, to support some certain formats you also need some licensing in place, which in some cases it can add up to your price".
04-13-2011, 07:32 AM
The answer to my question is:
Philips TV is not W7-Play-To certified, because it is not a DMR DLNA 1.5 certified.
Toshiba TV is W7-Play-To certified, because it is a DMR DLNA 1.5 certified.
Philips TV does not satisfy the condition to be a W7-Play-To certified, because only it is a DMP.
Not a problem paying for a logo.
Not only is it a problem of codec profiles.
Once found answer, resounding, and unequivocal, to my question, I will open a new thread to discuss why Philips TV should be a DMR DLNA 1.5 certified and, by extension, W7-Play-To certified, if we want a high quality TV via streaming.
04-13-2011, 08:37 AM
just some clarifications:
Digital Media Player (DMP): These devices find content on digital media servers (DMS) and provide playback and rendering capabilities. Examples include TVs, stereos and home theaters, wireless monitors and game consoles.
Digital Media Renderer (DMR): These devices play content received from a digital media controller (DMC), which will find content from a digital media server (DMS). Examples include TVs, audio/video receivers, video displays and remote speakers for music.
04-13-2011, 09:31 AM
Thanks for the comment, but in a nutshell:
DMP is a PULL device.
DMR is a PUSH device.
As the difference between DMP and DMR is a feature of particular relevance to quality streamging, I will open a new thread to specifically address the issue, as I said in my previous comment.