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dezz
07-06-2011, 04:38 AM
Hi,

I'm a long term supporter of Philips (and a "fan" of Natural Motion since almost a decade), so I came here, instead of f.ex. AVForum. Used to have a fine big screen 100Hz Natural Motion CRT TV (used for SDTV -- I was watching HD content lately on a 23" IPS monitor) that I now replaced with a 42PFL4606H/58. It wouldn't be bad, either, but I'm almost shocked how many ways they managed to compromise it with FW bugs... Most notably, it cannot finely be used now for anything other that watching analog SD channels. I wonder just how could it be put on market in this very premature state?

Well, here is my little bugreport.

Most serious:
1. High level of sharpening (with overshoot all over the place) even with Sharpness set at 0. (It's like the setting of ~6 on the 5405.) Affected modes: TV - digital tuner (SD/HD), any HDMI input (SD/HD) [except in PC Mode], Scart input, USB movie play (SD/HD). ("Adv. sharpness" is of course OFF.)

Perhaps less of an issue for those stuck in the SD age, watching TV from distances of those times. But it's now the age of HD and home theather, with much shorter viewing distances, as recommended by SMPTE and THX. Definitely no need for edge enhancement with a reasonably good quality HD content... (It also makes film grain too much strong.) I sincerely hope there at Philips they don't think HD is about this very artifical and eye banging look that you get now, no matter what. And so it's not intentional.

2. High level of backlight with Contrast = 50 (it affects backlight 50-100) and the Dynamic Backlight function OFF or it being not available, like in PC Mode. So, this way one can use PC Mode at daytime only -- at least without compromising contrast ratio (by setting the Contrast 0-50); and then again, blacks turn into gray (with Brightness set to 45 this time, for minimum digital black level).

The minimum level of backlight must be as low as possible, indeed in case of a panel with a native contrast ratio of ~1000:1. I think it is low enough here with Dynamic Backlight enabled. Now, if only one could set it this low manually, as well, f.ex. in PC Mode, where the Dynamic Backlight is not available...

(1.+2. = bye-bye watching quality Blu-ray movies in the evening... Also, even at daytime, quality HDTV content, f.ex. sport + Natural Motion is a no go, for now. Well, except watching all this from >5m.)

Some other notable/annoying things/bugs(?):
- Frequent swapping of odd and even fields in SD modes. Affected modes: TV - digital tuner (SD), Scart input. (Not tested with 576i over HDMI yet.)
- The digital black levels diverse in almost each mode (TV, HDMI in, PC Mode, etc.) with the same setting. At the default Brightness (50) the digital black level is too low (with Dynamic Contrast = OFF), excpt for PC Mode, where it's a bit too high. (So one have to use different picture settings for these modes.)
- The colors (i.e. HUE) are altered even with everything is OFF. (F.ex. ocean green becomes almost pure blue.) It's not as bad, it makes the image somewhat film-like, but I think it's better be switchable.
- There should be a maximum zoom ratio defined for the Auto fill picture format, to prevent it from zooming the logo to fullscreen in case the other parts of the image is black. :)
- Enabling subtitles in USB movie play makes some fonts too big in the menu.
- Every once in the while the TV stops responding. Disconnecting of main power needed.
- Lowered color precision when playing movies from USB.

Little bugs regarding the demo modes:
- Pixel Plus HD demo: the Natural Motion is on at the right side, instead of the left side.
- Pixel Plus HD demo: it takes always the setting of the Vivid picture mode for the left side, instead of the actual one.
- After setting Colour to 0 and activating Pixel Plus HD demo mode, picture remains B&W until a switch off/on sequence.
- No direct escape from these demo modes.

Some other recommendations:
- Enabling/disabling of subtitles in USB movie play needs to be more easily reachable (not mentioning selections of language [subtitle/audio], which is now not possible).
- Why disable the sensor in PC Mode? There are many PC monitors out there with such a sensor (like f.ex. mine).
- It would be very-very useful if there was an option for the Auto fill picture format mode to keep the right aspect ratio...
- It would be very useful if there was an option for the Super zoom picture format mode to make the difference of inner and outer aspect ratios bigger, making the inner parts of the image more close to normal.
- It would be very useful if there was an option so that Natural Motion were automatically switched off for film/movie content (24p/25p/30p [telecined or not]) and on for video content (50i/60i with 50/60 movements/sec). (Dreaming...)

Well, I've decided to keep this Philips television, for now (it's hard when people are moving the last pieces of sets like the LG 42LD750 from the shops in these very days - for lower prices...), in a hope the mentioned issues (the most important ones, at least) will be resolved soon, very soon... These are rather little things coding-wise, really... (At least I hope these are not HW issues.)

Or should I perhaps start advertising this one ASAP and go for the LG, indeed?

ps. on a positive note, I've found it has a more advanced motion interpolation than most if not all models from last year, incluing those of other brands. It's probably the main reason I didn't sent it back right at the moment I installed it and faced all the mentioned problems. The other being the otherways great image quality. And last, but not least: I quite like the new futuristic remote.

ps.2. gone back to watching HD on my monitor (in the evening, at least), in the meantime...

Philips - Thomas
07-07-2011, 08:14 AM
Hi dezz

Thank you for that Feedback for the 46PFL4606.
Of course I do agree with you on the matter that HD TV is more and more rising and today you are not sitting that far away from the TV.

On the other hand I have to say that Regarding your Concerns, we need to be clear, that this is all related to the Technology.

The 4xxx Series uses CCFL and Pixel Plus HD to create the Best Image possible in that Series with the used Technology.
Sure, there is always a "better" Picture but that's why we have different Ranges on our TVs.

I would say that you will get the Picture, you expect, at best with the 9705 or 9715 TV (difference is that the 9715 comes with a new Menu and a Different Remote)
But i have to say that on this Model Subtitles via USB will not be supported.
For 2K11 TVs i would not make a recommendation yet, as there are not all Model's out.

So far, what i can and will do is to share your Feedback for the 4606 also with our Engineers.
But please understand that i can not give you any promises that there will be a change f.e. with a new Software.
Of course, if there is anything we can do within the Software, we will.

I'll keep you postet.


Regards
Thomas

Toengel
07-07-2011, 08:19 AM
9705 or 9715 TV (difference is that the 9715 comes with a new Menu and a Different Remote)

Hi,

is that the only difference? Or did something changed regarding the hardware?

Toengel@Alex

Philips - Thomas
07-07-2011, 08:23 AM
Hi Toengel

The Difference is only the Remote and the Menu.
Hardware is the same.

Regards
Thomas

dezz
07-07-2011, 01:44 PM
Hi Thomas


Thank you for that Feedback for the 46PFL4606.
It's the 42" one (the software could be the same, though).


On the other hand I have to say that Regarding your Concerns, we need to be clear, that this is all related to the Technology.

What do you mean on technology? The panel, so that it's IPS? I love IPS and prefer it over the VAs! I have no issues with the panel itself!

It's the software that is subpar here! More exactly, certain maladjustments.

- Regarding the sharpening issue (strong sharpening even at setting 0): as I wrote, it's present in certain modes (HDMI input [except PC Mode ON], USB movie play, digital TV tuner, Scart), and not present with the analog TV tuner! So it seems it's only a wrong adjustment in the FW, for the mentioned input modes.

- Regarding the high level of backlight in PC Mode (or if you manually switch the Dynamic Backlight function OFF in normal mode) even at the manual minimum set level: the backlight can go much lower with Dynamic Backlight ON. So, given the backlight is controlled by software, it's again only a software adjustment issue here, one would think.

F.ex. with LG's, you can go as low manually as it goes in the automatic mode, if not more.

(I'm a FW developer. Not in the TV sector, though, but have some insights.)


The 4xxx Series uses CCFL and Pixel Plus HD to create the Best Image possible in that Series with the used Technology.

Do you suggest an IPS panel with a CCFL backlight needs a strong sharpening all the time? I don't think so... Neither the engineers of earlier CCFL-IPS-based models of Philips, like the 5405, it seems. (Not mentioning LG, Panasonic...)


Sure, there is always a "better" Picture but that's why we have different Ranges on our TVs.

I would say that you will get the Picture, you expect, at best with the 9705 or 9715 TV (difference is that the 9715 comes with a new Menu and a Different Remote)

You got to be kidding, right? :) These costs 4x-5x the 4606. I don't think I need to spend that much to get a reasonable picture. I could get it with a reasonably good IPS panel (like in the 4606) and the right software adjustments, ie. lack of unneeded oversharpening.

(I don't need LED local dimming for the price they ask for it. Also, some people, like me, prefer IPS panels over VA's.)

In fact, I could get "it" with f.ex. the 5405, but those are outsold already, here. (Except the little inferior Natural Motion, compared to the newer one f.ex. in 4606.)

And there are those LG's with a similar panel (and a well-functioning FW). (TruMotion being similar to Natural Motion of last year. At least TruMotion of last year, as well.)

(Not mentioning Panasonic with their decent IPS-alpha panels, of course with a considerably higher price.)


So far, what i can and will do is to share your Feedback for the 4606 also with our Engineers.
But please understand that i can not give you any promises that there will be a change f.e. with a new Software.
Of course, if there is anything we can do within the Software, we will.

Thanks in advance! I would be quite surprised if they couldn't do anything about it - making the 4606 a reasonably good set for a resonable price, without "stupid" compromises. And so a more competitive one.

petasis
07-07-2011, 02:58 PM
Can you post an image of a test card to adjust sharpness, to see the excessive sharpness added by the TV?

Regarding the inability to adjust the backlight, this is something that plagues all Philips TVs. Don't expect a fix for that...

dezz
07-07-2011, 06:00 PM
Can you post an image of a test card to adjust sharpness, to see the excessive sharpness added by the TV?

I'll post pictures soon. Could you link some testcards? (It doesn't need special testcards to be obvious, though.)


Regarding the inability to adjust the backlight, this is something that plagues all Philips TVs. Don't expect a fix for that...

There is no distinct adjustment slider for that (like on LG TV's), but in fact you can adjust it using the Contrast: between 50 and 100 it directly adjusts the intensity of backlight with both the Light sensor and the Dynamic Backlight set to OFF, and even with those enabled it's a variable in the expression.

(Below 50 it lowers the contrast ratio of the image digitally.)

The problem is that in PC Mode (where the Dynamic Backlight function is disbled -- or in case you disable it yourself in normal mode) the intensity of backlight is too high even with Contrast set to 50 (and Brightness set to 45-50 to minimize digital black level, as well). Much higher compared to the minimum level it goes with Dynamic Backlight ON. So, the backlight can go low enough, but the software prevents this in manual mode.

All in all, it could be a good TV for its price, provided some of the pre-adjusted parameters in the software weren't wrong.

petasis
07-08-2011, 08:23 AM
There is a free pattern disk here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=948496

It includes a sharpness pattern.

Regarding the contrast setting, its not a backlight control. Its a contrast control. It affects the backlight, but lowers also contrast.

dezz
07-08-2011, 11:34 AM
Thanks.

On the 4606, it works this way:
- 50-100:
a. PC Mode/both the Light sensor and Dynamic Backlight function OFF: adjusts the backlight directly. No change in contrast digitally.
b. Normal mode with either or both the Light sensor and/or Dynamic Backlight enabled: affects the level of backlight, set by the former functions.
- 0-50: Adjusts the contrast digitally (between ~30%-100%). No change in backlight.

dezz
07-10-2011, 04:31 PM
Here are some screen-shots.
All the white outlines are there because of the strong edge enhancement.
It's easily recognisable even on these little images - imagine this at 42"!
The eyes are going quite dazzled after an hour...
(The rather artifical look is less pronounced here, though.)
This all with Sharpness = 0, Adv. sharpness = OFF!


http://logout.hu/dl/upc/2011-07/51876_cartoon_1.jpg
SD TV, from an STB

http://logout.hu/dl/upc/2011-07/51876_cartoon_2.jpg
SD TV, from an STB

http://logout.hu/dl/upc/2011-07/51876_cars_a.jpg
HD - Blu-ray - PC mode
(This is how it should look also in normal mode, with Sharpness = 0.)

http://logout.hu/dl/upc/2011-07/51876_cars_b.jpg
HD - Blu-ray - normal mode

dezz
07-10-2011, 04:40 PM
Getting closer...


http://logout.hu/dl/upc/2011-07/51876_test_a.jpg
HD - PC mode

http://logout.hu/dl/upc/2011-07/51876_test_b.jpg
HD - Normal mode

Blu-ray really looks like this way as an upconverted divx/xvid. The outlines, the ringing, and the other side-effects of the unnecessary sharpening makes the image look like a low-bitrate compressed material. Better not watching. :/

Its predecessor, the 5405 doesn't have this issue (not mentioning many other sets in the same price range), and even the 4606 is free from it in analog SD tuner and PC modes, so I'm sure it's just a little mistake with the FW. But, when is it going to be resolved? Still no official word on it. :(

BTW, I've wrote in my first post that the TV is often swapping the fields (resulting in a streaky, comb-like image) - it seems this one is not the TV's fault but of those channels, because the logos look intact.

dezz
07-19-2011, 04:54 PM
There is a new FW (2.10). They've fine-tuned some aspects of the Pixel Plus HD, so that it not (or less) behaves like every fancy effect is active (at least at a minimum level) even when those are really OFF in the menu. Fine. Also, the response-speed of the menu is faster. Fine.

But, guess, what they didn't touched at all...? The Sharpness issue! (It's still at level 5-6 with the setting of 0.)

All the good things are just ruined by this single one... Sad. :(

Forgive me, but are they blind or what? This way the look of Vivid mode (what's presented in the shops, in itself or with the Pixel Plus HD Demo) is rather ugly already (even with SD material), as its sharpness is at level 12-13 (*) really, already, which is quite over the counter! It scares away possible customers, rather than encourage them to buy this TV... (Except if the TV is in analog SD tuner mode where the sharpness is at the right level, set in the menu.) I can't understand this... :confused:

* The number 12-13 comes from here: 7 is the default setting in the menu for the Vivid mode, which gets raised by 5-6 levels because of the FW issue. So, f.ex. when you set it to 0 it will really be at level 5-6, which is too high already. (Compared to the 5405, 5605, etc. - or the 4606 itself in analog tuner mode.)

So, dear FW developers, I'm sincerely asking you to fix this Sharpness issue, as well, please!

Don't tell it's a HW issue... It's fine in the analog tuner mode. There are also no edge enhancement on one side (**) of the Pixel Plus HD Demo screen, so it demonstrates that it can be omitted here, as well. It's only a question of will or care... It's not like some low-level HW components (HDMI receiver, digital tuner, etc.) has an unavoidable edge enhancement.

(** BTW, there is still a little bug here, that the Pixel Plus HD is ON in the right side, while it says it's ON on the left side.)

It can't be about forced market segmentation, can it? ("Don't make this mid-range set too much good!") It should be enough of a compromise in this price range that it has a panel with only a ~1000:1 native contrast ratio, no LEDs, no DLNA, no NetCast, and so on... It's definitely not too cheap for HDTV and Blu-ray, so that it must be intentionally worsened...

Also, don't tell I should switch to a 2-3x pricely model... F.ex. the 5405 didn't do this. Not mentioning more-or-less similar models of other brands (you can even make the picture look soft, if you want!), even at lower prices. But, please, I don't want to switch to LG! I find NaturalMotion better than TruMotion. Neither Samsung. I would love this TV (along with its futuristic remote) if this "stupid" oversharpening could be abandoned already.

...another month or so of uncertainty and the lack of the ability to watch Blu-ray on it (the way it's meant to do it - even my wife can tell it), in the middle of summer... Great!

I'm sorry for this "rant", but it's very frustrating. You can imagine...

Also frustrated because I've let other people buy up all the remaining LG 42LD550/565/650/750's (***) at discount prices, because I had a confidence in Philips. But, this also halfbaked update...

(*** Somewhat similar sets like the 4606, with a little inferior motion-interpolation and noise-reduction, and just a bit slower IPS panels - but you can at least watch HDTV and Blu-ray normally...)

Now, it seems there are only one last 565 left here (if someone didn't got it already)... Should I go for it, instead of waiting if I can use the 4606 for good, someday? Can anybody tell me anything?

ps. the backlight level in PC Mode is still quite high even at the minimum level (Contrast = 50) - while it could go much lower, like when Dynamic Backlight is ON.

dezz
07-22-2011, 01:13 AM
Anybody out there?
My set is a 42PFL4606H/58. Can I try the FW for the /12, that if it also has the sharpness issue?

Philips - Thomas
07-22-2011, 06:51 AM
Hi dezz,

I can only recommend to not do that.
Be aware that /12 FW is made for Western Europe and has settings in it which will not work in your Country.

However, we are still investigating the case and i will get back to you as soon as i hear anything about it.

Regards
Thomas

dezz
07-22-2011, 03:20 PM
Hi Thomas,

Thanks, but what settings do you mean? Regarding the analog tuner perhaps? AFAIK the same PAL variants are used in Hungary as in most other countries around. It works well if I install the TV with the country set to Germany, etc. Anyway, I don't really care about it as we have a digital cable box (of UPC that don't allow their smartcard used with a CI module here, so that the digital DVB-C tuner could be used). AFAIK, there are no differences in DVB-T, either, and it's not important to us anyway, with the cable box. Also, I don't mind if the menu could only be English. Indeed if it can be an intermediate solution.

Thank you very much you're investigating the case! Looking forward for some - presumably - good news, sometime soon(?). :)

4606
08-04-2011, 12:21 PM
Hello, I'd like to purchase a 42pfl4606h TV, but am wondering if these issues have been adressed and will be resolved in the near future. Can somebody inform me of the status thereof ?

kind regards,
Arthur

dezz
08-04-2011, 11:22 PM
Hello 4606,

I'm not sure if the /12 (or what they're selling in Holland) variant is also concerned or only the /58.

Anyway, I'm afraid the next firmware update will come only at the end of the month (seeing the release dates of the earlier ones).

BTW, a friend at Media Markt said they are switching over the 4606's from shop mode (in which it automatically set itself to Vivid mode with the default Sharpness level of 7, what is really being 12-13 now, which is simply unwatchable) to home mode to be able to set it lower (which is fine with average quality TV signals, at least). Even though they need to go and reset the TV's manually several times a day, as visitors can (mis)adjust the sets and it won't reset itself automatically in Home mode. So, they are not happy with it, either. (The Philips representative there is only lifting his shoulder and say it's not that annoying from 3-4 meters... Could this be the official position of Philips!?)

4606
08-07-2011, 08:44 AM
Yes it's the /12 here in Holland. Judging only by the file-size of the Autorun.upg firmware file they'd be the same, as would be the firmware for the 37", but that's just a guess.
I went to a store to view the panel and the sharpness overadjustment is very noticable indeed, as the store clerk did acknowledge. After fiddling with the settings for a while he could only advise me to buy a different TV :( I hope this bug will be corrected soon, it seems an otherwise good TV with an excellent price-quality ratio, and I really want to buy one a.s.a.p :)

Greetings, Arthur

Magnus
08-17-2011, 09:56 PM
@ dezz
Thank you for very useful information. I was seriously interested to buy this TV (/58), at an appropriate price, but now I see no need to hurry, but wait for the eventual improvement of the engineers.

Would you or someone else could clarify for me confusing information about the 400Hz Perfect Motion Rate (PMR) ? Is this a publicity stunt? What's it all about? Does this TV have 100Hz Clear Motion Rate or not?

And finally - if I even at this time had the opportunity to buy 42PFL5405 would you advise me to be better choices? Does it have serious disadvantages as compared to 4606?

Thanks in advance!

42PFL4606
08-22-2011, 08:34 AM
I have the 42PFL4606H/12 here in Norway with firmware 2.10 and got the same sharpness issues. Hope they'll release a firmware with a fix soon...

erin
08-22-2011, 09:47 AM
On the new firmware the subtitles are too high if you set a character encoding other than English (Eastern Europe, Greece, etc.).

Touareg
08-24-2011, 10:25 AM
I wanted to purchase 42PFL4606H/58, but when i read this i changed my mind, it's so sad that this TV has so many bugs and picture quality drawbacks.

Philips, why you don't respond, dezz has made a big job for revealing this 42PFL4606H/12/58 problem, but your engineers aren't solving this problem. :(

dezz
08-25-2011, 01:02 AM
@ Touareg: The picture quality would basically be fine, just have these issues... (Otherways either I wouldn't have bought this TV or would have sold it, already.) If once they fix them (at least the sharpening), it will be a good choice. (It's also good now if you watch it from 3-4m.)

It's time for a new version of FW to come, let's see what changes...

BTW, perhaps I've found another issue. :D My PC is connected to the TV with HDMI (as a second display). My videocard is a (passive) Radeon HD5750. If I switch the TV on, while the PC is on (and mostly it is), the connection will most of the time be reduced to DVI mode, so audio is gone. It needs a reboot to get back the HDMI functionality. (There is an amplifier connected to the PC, as well, but I prefer to use the speakers of the TV when I play f.ex. cartoons for my child.) It can be an issue with the videocard (driver/FW?), indeed, as well. But, I've found no similar complaints from other users of this videocard.

@ Arthur: I'm sorry I called you "4606" before. :)

@ Magnus: The 4606 is a 100 Hz TV, in terms of refresh rate and motion interpolation. Where did they wrote otherways?

Choices... It's always hard... :) Regarding last year's models, and if you're fine with or even prefer AS-IPS panels, and can't find an 5405, you can go with LG 42LD550, 565, 650 or 750 (these are also hard to find already, though).

Regarding new models, I think one can only get a 50 Hz + CCFL, for the actual price of the 5405, or even for a bit more. I've found only one 100 Hz + CCFL model next to the 4606, the LG 42LK530. It's fine, but its motion-interpolation is similar or worse than that of the 5405, the dynamic noise reduction is not as excellent as in Philips TVs, and I don't even like their new housing (subjective). Settings-wise it's better. If you want even another 100 Hz model, they will sell you an edge-LED backlight as well, for prices it's questionable if it worth it.

Comparing the 5405 and 4606:

I think the panel of the 42PFL5405 has a little bit better native contrast ratio, but on the other hand, it's noticeably slower (along with the mentioned LGs) than the one in the 42PFL4606. AFAIK, the former panel is a 3x12-bit one. I think the latter one is a 3x10-bit one, which is not bad at all, either. (It means there is less of a chance for colour banding, compared to 3x8-bit panels, usual in Samsung TVs, f.ex.) Both are AS-IPS, looking at the subpixel structure.

The motion-interpolation of the 5405 is a bit inferior compared to the one in the 4606, but you won't get better even with the latest LGs, f.ex. The difference is not as big, though.

Regarding the media player capabilities, the 4606 is able to display some forms of subtitles in movie files. No Philips TV could do this, until now. Also, it seems the codec compatibility is a bit better in the 4606. Neither can switch between audio streams or support DTS. (The 5405 won't even play it if there is a DTS stream; the 4606 will play - with no voice if the DTS is the first audio stream.)

Otherways I think these are very similar. (Except the housing and some little things here are there. And of course these issues, as of now.)

Magnus
08-25-2011, 04:03 PM
@dezz
Thank you very much for your efforts and comprehensive response.

About 100Hz: Philips on the official 4606 site, as well as the supporting material does not state anywhere what is actually Clear Motion Rate. So, I have not found this information.

The only such specifications that can be correlated is "400Hz Perfect Motion Rate", which for me is quite unknown. I have not found any other brand mentioned something like that.

I even saw on 4606 TV boxes (later) glued labels that promote PMR value, but not a 100Hz info. All this is quite confusing me. And finally, when I saw the mighty bugs that you listed... I mean... WOW!

LG is not an option for me. Maybe a Panasonic plasma.

Toengel
08-25-2011, 04:05 PM
Hi,

as far as I know, the 4000 series of 2011 is CCFL technology and they use a 100 Hz panel...

Toengel@Alex

dezz
08-25-2011, 06:11 PM
@Magnus: It seems the CMR is some kind of a visual experience index, similar to Motion Clarity Index some manufactures started to promote, to make a distinction from older 100 Hz models. (Usually they're listing the actual refresh rate, as well, though.)

@Toengel: Correct. My TV says 100 Hz Clear LCD in the menu and obviously it's so.

oklunden
08-26-2011, 08:36 PM
I've found this thread and I'm really amazed, come on Philips fix the problems.

I've been searching the menus of my recently bought TV, a Philips 42PFL4606H, for a way to disable the Dynamic Contrast or what ever it might be called. It's really anoying when you watch movies were there are dark scenes and TV automatic adjust the contrast so it gets even darker and you wont be able to see all details.

I will check for FW updates.

dezz
08-29-2011, 01:59 AM
@oklunden: Try these! Navigate this way in the menu:
'Home' -> Setup -> TV Settings -> Picture -> Pixel Plus HD
And here you will find two settings (among others):
- Dynamic Contrast
- Dynamic Backlight

The former is for adjusting the contrast (digitally) according to image contents, I think. It darkens even more the dark regions. I have it set to OFF.

The latter one is for adjusting the backlight according to image content. (Never mind it's usually called dynamic contrast instead by other manufactures.) I have it enabled, as I think a panel with an 1000-1200:1 native(!) contrast ratio needs some automatic adjustment in backlight intensity. But you may prefer it be disabled. Although, first you could try to set it to Best Picture, as this way it doesn't darkens the backlight that much with dark scenes.

I hope it helps.

Dziao
09-04-2011, 05:57 AM
Hi everyone, i have 42PFL4606H/58 few days, and starting to think that i made wrong turn when i chosed philips :)

It cant play DTS, well ok i can live with that, but if i play 1080p video from USB, with AC3 sounds, it plays only 1 audio track, i cant switch to another audio language....
Is it posible ? Or i need to cut away languages that i dont need, and left only 1 audio track ?

dezz
09-04-2011, 01:34 PM
Hello Dziao, AFAIK only some Samsung TVs play DTS, but neither their media player in the TV is flawless. If you want perfect media player functionality better buy a media player box...

That being said, it wouldn't need as much work to allow selection of the audio and subtitle language. Perhaps it will be added later, with a FW update.

I would care more about the image quality... This TV would have a great image quality (compared to it's price, at least), as it have a brand new fast AS-IPS panel and relatively good electronics - if there weren't certain bugs in the FW, mentioned a few times in this topic. Why should one care about the language thing when the whole TV is better not used for HD material, in the first place? (Unless you like this miserable, artifical looking oversharpened image, that is.)

4606
09-07-2011, 10:27 AM
So far, what i can and will do is to share your Feedback for the 4606 also with our Engineers.
Regards
Thomas

That was 8 weeks ago now, what was the reply from the engineers you shared these issues with Thomas ?



Greetings,
Arthur

Dakorah
09-16-2011, 05:25 PM
Hi!
I have the same problem. The picture is too much. When i looked at the picture in the store i thought i could change sharpness level. I just bought my Philips 37 PFL 4606H, and now i cant turn it back because the store wont take it back when its used. Im very dissapointed. Philips...pls fix this problem in next firmware. And also, if they can add better .mkv support.

Dakorah
09-16-2011, 05:46 PM
And one more thing....changing aspect ratio during usb playback? The 4606 autofills the screen :(

Dziao
09-20-2011, 09:34 AM
Yes, then playing videos from USB media, we cant change aspect ratio, contrast, brightness, energy plan and so on.

Philips player only can pause, play, rewind, and its really annoying.

Please make some changes, what we all can control same settings as we can when watching TV, in video player, i don't think that it is something different just enable that options please

4606
10-02-2011, 10:27 AM
Are there any Philips support-persons left here at all ? Any status updates ?

petasis
10-02-2011, 10:14 PM
What is the question you are awaiting feedback on?

Harkonnen
10-07-2011, 01:50 AM
I just bought 32PFL4606, updated firmware to 2.15 and this ugly sharpness bug is still there... will there be a fix for this, or should i return this TV before its too late? I like it otherwise, it has beautiful picture in PC Mode, unfortunately without the Natural Motion :(

4606
10-10-2011, 12:04 PM
@petasis I would say: read this thread. And also, never mind, because I have had to buy a TV of another brand, after months of waiting for at least an acknowledgement or status-update of Philips' findings concerning this (very fixable) sharpness-bug. Good luck everyone, I hope Philips will one day adress and fix this problem.

substancer
11-01-2011, 09:24 AM
Hello,

i received mine Philips 42PFL4606H/12 yesterday.
I have also an 32PFL5605H in my Bedroom.

The Picture on the 42" model is good, but i'm also having the sharpness issue.
It looks very terrible for example on text overlays in the News (also HD channel).
The compression Artefacts also get highlighted by this, so it looks even more terrible.
Also fast movements are more laggy than on the 5000 Series one.

I've tried all settings.
Didn't have this on my 32" Philips though.

When i connected my PC it looked so oversharpened at first. The only solution is to turn PC Mode on, but then i cant watch HD Movies with 100Hz/Perfect Motion.

I hope Philips will fix this, or i will give my TV back within 2 weeks.

(also using newest firmware)

j00se
11-17-2011, 03:13 PM
Still same picture quality issues in newest fw 2.16..

substancer
11-17-2011, 04:02 PM
i think the picture quality is artificially kept low.
don't think it's related to a bad panel or something else, the picture just has been "made" bad.

also gave my tv back to the retailer.
wont buy a 4000 series philips anymore.

waltervos
11-22-2011, 12:14 PM
Hey everybody,

I'm considering buying this TV and I'm wondering what the problem with subtitles is exactly. From what I'm reading here it appears as though it does work, just not very well. Can anybody shed some light on this please? Thanks!

- Walter

hosamovic
11-28-2011, 06:11 PM
Hoping for an official input here

Zefirodos
12-06-2011, 02:34 PM
Just updated to fw 2.18, no changes to picture, it's still too sharp (for games, at least). Seriously Philips, is there nothing you can do about this?

hosamovic
12-06-2011, 06:32 PM
Just updated to fw 2.18, no changes to picture, it's still too sharp (for games, at least). Seriously Philips, is there nothing you can do about this?

Hi
Did u notice any change in input lag?

And Philips, is it too much to ask for a simple reply?

All this is making the Panasonic 3D plasma I saw more appealing.

Zefirodos
12-07-2011, 10:30 AM
Hi
Did u notice any change in input lag?


Not really.

cloudstr
12-18-2011, 07:21 AM
i'm an happy customer of 47pfl4606h/12 tv (from 4 days). I've upgraded with 2.18 firmware. With pc (hdmi mode) and pc mode on the image it's awesome, no input lag in videogames (tried Skyrim and Batman Arkam city), 1080p mkv movies are AMAZING and i'm very happy for the price/quality of this television.
The only problem remain with the latest firmware is the shapeness issue with digital tv (sd/hd). The quality of image is good but in the image configuration i set 0 shapeness and advanced shapeness off but seems like it's at level 6/7. This high level of shapeness transform the quality in an artificial image with some artifacts in writings on tv (es. in news channels).
This issue is not present in analog tv so it's a firmware issue. I tried to put pc mode in the digital television but it's not possibile (when watch digital tv the pc mode option disappear from option menų). It's impossible that the shapeness issue is from the panel because this tv mount a S-Ips panel and all of us know that s-ips don't have issue with shapeness (it's a very good panel for people like me that use tv with pc).
I hope that soon philips release 2.19 firmware that resolve this issue.
Please forgive all my english errors but i'm italian and i'm not the best with foreign languages.
Thanks for attention.

yk1711
12-24-2011, 01:13 AM
Dezz, thanks for the detailed input on this product.

I was just going to purchase a similar TV, but the 3606 model. So I'm wondering if this line is also affected by the strange sharpening issue?

If so, then it's a shame and I probably won't buy a TV that has a decent hardware but is made worse on purpose by firmware to make people buy more expensive models.

In my opinion, these kind of issues are never solved because of all the bureaucracy involved.

The client is not the first priority these days.

the_major
01-13-2012, 02:32 PM
I bought a tv PHILIPS 42" PFL2606 some day ago.
I would know how tot set image configuration... because my colours sucks!
I use it only for sd, not hd.

Please, help me

cloudstr
01-13-2012, 03:17 PM
for Sd image try to use this setting .... Image Smart Photo
Contrast 42 Brightness 46 Tint Normal and turn off all the Pixel Plus hd features.

the_major
01-13-2012, 03:26 PM
ti mando un privato cloud... cosė mi speghi via msn e nn sporchiamo il thread

cloud, ci sei?

Toengel
01-13-2012, 08:15 PM
Hi,

please write in English (forum rules)!

Toengel@Alex

bare984
01-25-2012, 11:06 PM
Hi i bought 4606 few days ago,and i have a same problem,in my country we have only digital signal and sharpnees is not good on this tv,my bigger problem is that when i conect my computer with hdmi picture is catastroficly bad....can someone tell me is it possible to fix this and how can i do that..best regards bare984....
p.s Philips,is there any replys on this posts here,what is happening?
:confused:

hugo
02-01-2012, 11:58 AM
I contacted Philips today via support chat and asked, if there will be a fix available. My question was transferred to engineer group. And, unfortunately, they said that in their opinion sharpness isn't a problem. "Sharpness is a subjective point of view". So, no problem, no fix :rolleyes:

Edit:
Philips support also recommended to compare models in a shop. If there is some better one available.

petasis
02-02-2012, 05:46 PM
Is it possible to post a picture of a sharpness pattern, with all resolution enhancements off, just to see how bad things are?

Muffcase2012
02-08-2012, 10:38 PM
Hi Phillips (and your customers)

I've just picked up an 4606H (Swedish/EU version). Basically a good enough bedroom TV, besides a couple of issues.

1. The sharpness "bug" as explained, causing HD material and Text overlays to be distorted. Shame, since the panel is good.

2. MPEG artifacts causing visible "blocking". Take for example a fading red (light red in middle fading to dark red, as in the demo material played at Mediamarkt), while other TVs in the same price range reproduce the fading OK, rings are clearly visible on the 4606H. Shame, since the panel is good (do not see this in PC mode).

3. MPEG artifacts when the input is (deliberately) grainy (e.g., Tinker Soldier Spy), the MPEG decoder goes bezerk (erroneous blocks in the picture, even if MPEG artifact reduction is turned on). Shame, grainy material is not enjoyable at all (under VLC on the PC no artifices were visible but I cannot claim that this goes for ALL grainy material).

My guess is that these artifacts are all related to the MPEG decoding. As previously discussed the sharpness "bug" is NOT present in PC mode (NO MPEG), NOR in the analog tv decoding (NO MPEG), while present whenever MPEG decoding is done.

MPEG decoding consist of a set of mathematical operations (filters) operating on the incoming data and the current frame(s). The operations involve constants (scalars, vectors, matrixes, etc.) that not only reproduces the image, but also manipulates contrast, color, and sharpness. Presumingly parts (if not all) of the processing is done by dedicated hardware with some settable parameters (this allows us to change the picture). However there might not be a 1-1 mapping of settable hardware parameters to those shown in the TV menu, the relation is probably quite complex).

I'm no expert at MPEG decoding, so I can't tell exactly where things go wrong here, but to me it looks like the problem is caused due to saturating some register (intermediate calculation result) or having erroneous value(s) in some scalar/vector/matrix in the MPEG hardware. (The latter would somewhat resemble the infamous Intel floating point bug http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentium_FDIV_bug).

So bottom line, if it is a matter of mapping the menu parameters to parameters of MPEG hardware this should be fixable. Blocking artifacts caused by saturating calculations, could be fixed by recalculating constants (located in the MPEG hardware).

Question is wether you at Phillips think it is worth the engineering effort (as a low-end segment TV it does it job pretty well anyways, other brands have (other) bugs in their products etc...).

Or maybe ... my guesses are totally out of the blue... then please put me straight.

Best,
Per Lindgren

Aruperu
02-22-2012, 10:03 PM
Hello there!

It'd be so great if you could enable zoom changing function in mediaplayer during usb playback. It's the thing that this TV lacks and it doesn't seem to be so hard to implement it in new software. If you care add it please.

Best regards

kmzkmz
03-27-2012, 11:41 PM
Just for the record: "Sharpness bug" is still present in 2.19.

kaplin
05-31-2012, 06:40 AM
Hi there. There is a bug in firmware with my 42PFL4606H. My TV is connected to my PC(Win7) via HDMI and it is used as a second display. When I watch my TV(DVB-C) and PC is turned off - all is great, when my PC is powered on, but I'm not logged in windows - all is great. But when I'm logging in - windows initialized second display(my 42PFL4606H) and then image and sound of DVB-C channel become distorted. MPEG artifacts are present on picture, different noise in sound. When I'm log off my windows - all is great. I have a newest firmware (2.21), last updated today in the morning.

Sorry for my bad English :)

Zlate
06-10-2012, 09:18 PM
Hello,
I read most of the posts in this thread but i have a bug to report of myself as well.
I bought the 37PFL4606H/58 like 2 months ago and so far i love it, but there is a bug in the picture that bothers me a lot every day. So, i will try to explain how the bug looks like.
When i play movies via USB, on some of them not on all, there is like interference or distortion in the picture not sure how to explain it exactly but its a bug in the picture.... small squares appear in the picture it looks like bad graphics and it lasts like few seconds only... (for example when i watch Game of Thrones i always get that bug during the beginning song part of the episode). Has anyone had this problem ? Does anyone know whats causing it and how to fix it ?
Please help if anyone knows anything about this problem because it bothers me too much i cannot watch a good movie in peace im always looking for those squares to appear...

nimbystripes
06-12-2012, 04:16 AM
I think the latest update already fixed this issue. http://imagicon.info/cat/12-19/icon_e_smile.gif

Zlate
06-13-2012, 01:29 AM
The 2.21 update ? Because i haven't updated the TV to that one yet.