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Freddy
07-08-2011, 04:05 PM
Hello again everyone!

As the months are passing by... and some bugs just won't disappear... I decided to make, which I hope will be, the final thread with a list of some old and a couple of new bugs in and a few small wishes for our PFL9705.



Old but still present bugs:

- The first bug I would like to mention again briefly here, is the "Dimming problem every time subtitles appear on PFL9705 (http://www.supportforum.philips.com/en/showthread.php?1265-Dimming-problem-every-time-subtitles-appear-on-32PFL9705)". This bug can of course be discussed further in its own thread. I just thought it to be easier for Philips ;) to include it in this list.
(Still not fixed in firmware 140.46!!! :( After more than a year...)

- The second bug that needs to be mentioned again of course, as it is still not solved for everyone, is the "Sound drop problem with HDMI sources". This bug is well known and it is being discussed all over this forum.
(Time to have a small party again!!! :rolleyes: The second one of the list that appears to be finally fixed: in firmware 140.46)
(Unfortunately this problem seems to be still not solved for everyone, especially for those using CI(+), but also for some others. Look here:
http://58pfl9955.wordpress.com/2012/01/30/philips-aufruf-zur-untersuchung-von-tonaussetzern-mit-ci-modulen/)

- The third "old" bug... not that old, but still... is the "Very low Net TV connection speed problem", also being discussed in a number of threads around here. This bug appears to be introduced by firmware 140.36. Reverting to an older firmware does not solve it, but people smart enough :p never to touch 140.36 do not have this problem. So apparently 140.36 changed something for the worse, an address maybe, that isn't automatically reset by using another firmware version.
(Hurray!!! :) The first one of the list confirmed to be fixed again: in firmware 140.40)


New bugs:

- The first "new" bug is one that hasn't been discussed on this forum yet, so here it goes... Unfortunately I haven't been able to make a decent video of it happening (by now I have), so I will try to describe it as accurately as possible.

The problem is that around two times an evening, at high contrast borders in the picture (in black regions right next to brighter objects), I see some pixels flashing.
These flashes are just that: very short flashes. They are not confined to certain areas on the screen, they are confined to these, as I called them, high contrast border regions. When they happen once, they will happen a number of times after that: around five to ten times, 3-15 seconds apart. And then they're gone again for a number of hours.

This has been confirmed by a couple of other people around the web, with different sizes of the PFL9705 and with different firmware versions. Some say the "Clear LCD" setting seems to effect this bug.

(As I said, by now I finally have been able to catch it on camera, so you can see it for yourself... in case you didn't notice it in person yet:
Flashes.MP4 - 4.2 MB (http://uploading.com/files/2629626c/Flashes.MP4/))


- The second "new" bug is a "funny" one... Again I will try to describe it as accurately as possible, as capturing it on video requires a good camera and a steady hand.

This problem happens only with "Dynamic Backlight" = Off and "Clear LCD" = On. When the tv is turned on with these settings as described, everything looks fine. But after a while, ranging from 15 minutes to a couple of hours after the tv has been turned on, panning shots start to look very bad when bright colors are involved.
Say someone with a red shirt (or any other bright color) pans through the picture, then the color red seems to follow the shirt, juddering around half a centimeter behind where it should be.

Turning "Dynamic Backlight" on resolves it, but turn it off again and the problem returns immediately.
However, turning "Clear LCD" off also resolves it, but now the problem remains gone even after turning "Clear LCD" on again. So "Clear LCD" seems to reset a certain timing that can get out of sync under some circumstances, like I described.


Small wishes:

- The first small wish is actually a simple one. I would like an extra "Picture format" setting for 4:3 programs.

As most of you will know, sometimes wide screen programs are being transmitted as 4:3 by mistake. This can easily be corrected by using one of the Wide screen settings.
But the other way around also happens sometimes, when a 4:3 program is being transmitted mistakenly as wide screen. This can not be corrected by any of the current "Picture format" settings, so you are forced to look at a broadened picture. A "4:3" setting would solve this problem.


- And my final small wish is the return of something like the old "Input source selection" function. I know there isn't a button for that on our remote, but the now empty blue button could be used for this.

Currently you have to open the home menu, scroll to the desired source and press ok, just to switch between sources.

A much easier way would be, when pressing the blue button once would swap between the last two selected sources. Pressing it more often would select one of your other sources, in the order in which they were last used. A small information line in the left corner could show the name of the selected source, just like it does when changing the volume.



I really hope I could be of any help to you, Philips!... And of course, I also hope you will be able to solve these issues, to make an already very good tv even greater!... :o

Thanks again in advance, and for those of you who aren't here right now, have a great summer! :cool:

Freddy

Adamo
07-12-2011, 03:21 PM
I agree!

Philips, please listen Freddy's advice.

Adamo

durtro
07-20-2011, 02:12 PM
I also have an odd one but maybe it is interference from some unknown source.

I have the tv connected to a pc dvi<->hdmi source and thus no sound and to an analog tv source. Every now and then, when I'm using the hdmi source of the tv the audio from the analog source starts playing. I have to mute the tv sound or select the analog tv source on the tv and then my pc hdmi source again. This can happen several times a day but it is random.

As to the dimming effect I also suffer from it and as such have the dynamic backlight off on my personal settings which I have to use often since in my country subtitles are the majority and almost only kids programs and documentaries are dubbed. On the pc source the effect is also highly visible in some fullscreen still frames where the simple appearance of the mouse pointer makes the all frame flash as do subtitles.

petasis
07-20-2011, 06:21 PM
As to the dimming effect I also suffer from it and as such have the dynamic backlight off on my personal settings which I have to use often since in my country subtitles are the majority and almost only kids programs and documentaries are dubbed. On the pc source the effect is also highly visible in some fullscreen still frames where the simple appearance of the mouse pointer makes the all frame flash as do subtitles.

Try reducing your contrast setting...

durtro
07-20-2011, 08:01 PM
Try reducing your contrast setting...

It doesn't help. It appears to be dependent on the image but in the still frame I mentioned I reached 30 contrast, disabled all processing except the dynamic blacklight and still the effect was visible. Was using the natural setting as base which sets contrast to 90. If I disable the dynamic blacklight the effect goes away. It seems that the effect is more obvious in images with little color and color variation, for example grays and browns.

petasis
07-20-2011, 10:42 PM
What firmware are you using?

durtro
07-20-2011, 11:19 PM
The last one. I was on 140.25 because internet update in the tv said the firmware was up to date but earlier today I installed firmware 140.39 which I think is the last one and the problem is still there. Backgrounds flicker due to dimming and that effect is especially visible with subtitles but not only with them.

What happens is that color uniform backgrounds, let's say a gray wall, flicker when other parts of the image change. It is highly visible with subtitles appearing and changing but also happens when changes in the foreground appear like face movement and so on. Some times it isn't that noticeable but other times it is very much.

Freddy's top post has a link to a thread were the problem is discussed and with samples ready for testing in a tv.

petasis
07-21-2011, 08:23 AM
I have tested with Freddy's image, and there is no change on the lower right corner (as said). There is of course a change in the area the volume appears.
But this is how local dimming works. You cannot have a system that suddenly something white appears, causing the LED to produce light, and have no effect at the surrounding area.

What are your settings?

Regarding subtitles on movies from external player, there is a solution: don't let them be 100% white, make them 70 or 80 gray instead.

I am also on a country that everything is subtitled. While I can see the effect in same cases, I think it is not that widespread, its just in some cases.
And I think that tweaking the setting, may help significantly...

Freddy
07-21-2011, 10:42 AM
I have tested with Freddy's image, and there is no change on the lower right corner (as said). There is of course a change in the area the volume appears.
I'm not sure if it's a typo, but the bad effect in the static picture test is visible in the lower left corner, not the right as you say. In the moving video test, the one where the subtitles appear, the effect is exactly as described by durtro and many others. The appearance of the subtitles at the bottom of the screen effects the brightness of the entire screen, not just where the subtitles are.


What are your settings?

Regarding subtitles on movies from external player, there is a solution: don't let them be 100% white, make them 70 or 80 gray instead.
This effect can not be changed much (if at all) by changing settings, and while watching tv most of us still can't change the subtitles themselves (nor would it matter much to make them a little less bright; the effect would still be there).


I am also on a country that everything is subtitled. While I can see the effect in same cases, I think it is not that widespread, its just in some cases.
Unfortunately it seems a lot more widespread on the 32" PFL9705, whereas on your 46" it indeed seems to be less common... Why that is!?... I don't know.

durtro
07-21-2011, 02:08 PM
I've not tested with Freddy's image because I can see the effect in my own sources. The problem for me is that it doesn't appear to be local dimming in some cases. The area where the dimming occurs is huge in some cases especially when the background is all of the same or of similar color. The appearance of subtitles in the lower part of the screen shouldn't change the picture in the upper part. It should change it only around given subtitles.

As to being widespread I wouldn't say it is because in some cases it isn't that visible but in a single series episode of 30 minutes, even without subtitles, I can see it a couple of times.



What are your settings?

I've been using one of the smart settings for this test. In particular I've been using the natural setting with a changed brightness of 60 instead of 50. I'm open to suggestions but I have tried several settings already.



Regarding subtitles on movies from external player, there is a solution: don't let them be 100% white, make them 70 or 80 gray instead.

I mostly use pc sources with a media player and separate sources for subtitles. Rarely use embedded subtitles, however, changing colors is possible with srt subtitles but not desirable with ass subtitles.

I put two little videos showing what I mean at http://homeo11.durtro.operaunite.com/file_sharing/content/

The first one is the mouse pointer effect when it appears over the still frame and also the video toolbar effect when it appears at the bottom.

The second one is the video itself during a little segment where the effect is clearly visible with at least one subtitle.

Those are worst case scenarios but they do happen and more often that they should.

Freddy
07-21-2011, 03:04 PM
I put two little videos showing what I mean at http://homeo11.durtro.operaunite.com/file_sharing/content/

The first one is the mouse pointer effect when it appears over the still frame and also the video toolbar effect when it appears at the bottom.

The second one is the video itself during a little segment where the effect is clearly visible with at least one subtitle.

Those are very good videos showing this problem!... :) Especially the first one (MOV00585.MPG) is very clear. Thanks for making them!
Please post them in the "Dimming problem every time subtitles appear on 32PFL9705 (http://www.supportforum.philips.com/en/showthread.php?1265-Dimming-problem-every-time-subtitles-appear-on-32PFL9705/page2)" thread as well.

Philips!?... Please look at his videos, so you know what we're dealing with!... :( And of course... please fix this bug! It's the last big one, in my opinion.

petasis
07-21-2011, 03:22 PM
What are your settings?

Try setting contrast to 70, brightness to 50, local dimming to best picture or typical, the sensor to on, and see if the problem persists.
Why have you raised brightness to 60? Isn't it too much?
An contrast to 90, isn't too much light?
What is your 9705 model? The 46" one?

I think that this is a nice reading: http://www.spearsandmunsil.com/articles/settingthebrightnesscontrol.html
It explains very well what the brightness control does, and how it should be adjusted. There is only a single correct value for each connected device.

durtro
07-21-2011, 03:47 PM
I used the natural setting as base with only the brightness changed. In that setting dynamic backlight is at standard and the sensor, which I suppose you mean light sensor, is on. I raised brightness because on blacker frames there was too much detail being lost but I do agree that 90 contrast is too much.

My tv is the 32 inch one.

Have new video available with those settings "MOV00593.MPG" at the same link as before. The mouse movement at that particular still frame is pretty bad. As said before, this is one of the worst case scenarios and thankfully there are situations were this effect is barely visible or not at all, however, this happens frequently enough to make the use of the dynamic backlight feature, which is one of the selling points of the tv, undesirable.

petasis
07-21-2011, 05:12 PM
Can you post the image, to check on my 9705?

durtro
07-22-2011, 12:41 AM
Can you post the image, to check on my 9705?

Done. Added 3 images to the same link as before. One bmp in tv resolution and two png in video resolution. The images should be available during the day tomorrow. If they're not it is because I'm not running opera in my pc or my pc isn't online at that moment and because the images are served from my pc. They should be up most of the time though.

Freddy
08-13-2011, 10:23 PM
Hello again everyone! :)

For one of the two New Bugs I mentioned in the opening post of this thread:


The problem is that around two times an evening, at high contrast borders in the picture (in dark/black regions next to brighter objects), I see some white pixels flashing.
These flashes are just that: very short flashes. They are not confined to certain areas on the screen, they are confined to these, as I called them, high contrast border regions. When they happen once, they will happen a number of times after that: around five to ten times, 3-15 seconds apart. And then they're gone again for a number of hours.

This has been confirmed by a couple of other people around the web, with different sizes of the PFL9705 and with different firmware versions. Some say the "Clear LCD" setting seems to effect this bug.


I finally have been able to catch it on camera, so you can see it for yourself... in case you didn't notice it in person yet:
Flashes.MP4 - 4.2 MB (http://uploading.com/files/2629626c/Flashes.MP4/)

So Philips!?... :rolleyes: Now that it's out there, I really hope you will be able to solve this... and those few other New and Old Bugs in the opening post of course!... ;)

Thanks again in advance!

Freddy

petasis
08-14-2011, 03:56 PM
I was not able to download the file. Please use a better file sharing company.

Freddy
08-14-2011, 04:13 PM
Strange... What happens when you try to download it?...

Especially for you... :p I added another site:
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=3G2UB8BI

Toengel
08-14-2011, 04:24 PM
Hi,

I could see your problem (the mouth of the woman on the left has a white line):

383
Toengel@Alex

Freddy
08-14-2011, 04:33 PM
Hi,

yes, you're right. Not only the mouth, by the way: also the eye, the openings of the nose, her hair line and the top of the shoulder of the man in the front. All those dark lines right next to bright areas flash white from time to time.

Toengel
08-14-2011, 04:35 PM
Hi,

this could be a overflow of the color values... need to be examined by Philips technicans...

Toengel@Alex

Freddy
08-14-2011, 04:39 PM
this could be a overflow of the color values... need to be examined by Philips technicans...
Well... then I hope some of them will notice our new posts here tomorrow!... :)

petasis
08-15-2011, 06:00 PM
Strange... What happens when you try to download it?...

Especially for you... :p I added another site:
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=3G2UB8BI

I tried two times, and I got two html pages, the second saying I am already downloading the file :D...
The second link (in megaupload) worked fine.

I have never observed this in my 9705, but I would like to reproduce it.
Does it happens only in static images? (I have Clear LCD always on, should I close it?)

petasis
08-15-2011, 06:02 PM
I want to add another "bug": the frequency of the input signal is never displayed in my 9705. Its quite annoying to not knowing what the connected device actually sends...

Toengel
08-15-2011, 06:52 PM
Hi,

yeah - I support that... The info page need to show more information about the resolution and the Hz.

Toengel@Alex

Freddy
08-15-2011, 07:00 PM
I have never observed this in my 9705, but I would like to reproduce it.
Does it happens only in static images? (I have Clear LCD always on, should I close it?)Well, you could try that of course, as some were indeed saying Clear LCD effected this. But personally, I too have Clear LCD always on and it still happens every other day, two times an evening... give or take.
And no, the kind and source of the image do not matter: static or not, analog or digital, tv or Net TV, even the tv's own menus can cause this. As long as there are such high contrast borders on screen. A good way of "forcing" it is to find, for example, a Net TV page with white text or picture elements on a black background.

byknarf
08-16-2011, 12:43 PM
Also: PLEASE listen. Especially the sound drop!!

Maybe I can be so bold as to add some wishes: Make menu's (more) transparent and add EPG info when switching TV channels within the CI module

Thanks,
Frank

m3a4424
08-16-2011, 08:30 PM
I have a programmable Universal remote and with just one touch, i select the source i want.

So i think that's not so difficult to implement in the original remote.




Small wishes:
- And my final small wish is the return of something like the old "Input source selection" function. I know there isn't a button for that on our remote, but the now empty blue button could be used for this.

Currently you have to open the home menu, scroll to the desired source and press ok, just to switch between sources.

A much easier way would be, when pressing the blue button once would swap between the last two selected sources. Pressing it more often would select one of your other sources, in the order in which they were last used. A small information line in the left corner could show the name of the selected source, just like it does when changing the volume.

durtro
08-20-2011, 12:31 PM
Added three more videos to http://homeo11.durtro.operaunite.com/file_sharing/content/?session-redirect=noCookie or http://homenext.durtro.operaunite.com/file_sharing/content/ showing the non local dimming issue.

MOV00604.mpg -> the all image clearly flashes with the mouse appearance in dynamic backlight standard
MOV00605.mpg -> the all image clearly flashes with the mouse appearance in dynamic backlight best picture
MOV00606.mpg -> another frame of the same video without any problem

Adamo
08-22-2011, 08:20 PM
Hello again everyone! :)

For one of the two New Bugs I mentioned in the opening post of this thread:


[I]The problem is that around two times an evening, at high contrast borders in the picture (in dark/black regions next to brighter objects), I see some white pixels flashing.
These flashes are just that: very short flashes. They are...

Hi Freddy,

I can't reproduce the problem that you described in your post, but I have another kind of visualization problem, here an example:

The original avi file is [a part of it]: http://uploading.com/files/3987ba9m/original_avi_file.avi/

Original Avi file details:
390

This is a recorded file that shows the problem on my TV (sorry for its low quality): http://uploading.com/files/71bb5f2b/Recorded_visual_error.mp4/

Some pictures that show the visual error (see the red box):
387388389

The TV model is: 32PFL9705H/12 - FW v0.140.39.0 - I've tried different "smart picture" settings (Vivid, Natural, Cinema...).

Using my PC I can play the original avi file without errors (you can check it using VLC - also with reduced speed).

I would like to say that my TV displays these type of errors also with live TV shows (by DVB-T tuner).

I don't know if they are software or hardware related (I hope software...).

I can only guess the cause, may be it's a problem with the:

* "Halo artifact reduction"
* or "Movie de-judder and motion blur reduction"
* or color management
* or contrast saturation management

Sincerely,
Adamo

petasis
08-23-2011, 08:55 AM
I can reproduce it in my 46PFL9705.
(I played the file through DLNA, and I can see the white flashes).

Freddy
08-26-2011, 12:46 PM
Hello again!

I just added to the opening post that one of the old bugs, the Net TV connection issue, has been fixed in firmware 140.40 :)

petasis
08-29-2011, 09:16 AM
I have observed that sometimes I get no sound if I switch to a DVB-T channel. Re-switching the channel fixes it. I think it got introduced in 140.39, and is still there in 140.40. It doesn't happen often though (It has happened two times only for me).

Freddy
08-30-2011, 10:17 PM
Hi Freddy,
Hi Adamo, :)

sorry it took me so long to answer your message...


... but I have another kind of visualization problem, here an example:

The original avi file is [a part of it]: http://uploading.com/files/3987ba9m/original_avi_file.avi/

...

Some pictures that show the visual error (see the red box):
387388389

The TV model is: 32PFL9705H/12 - FW v0.140.39.0 - I've tried different "smart picture" settings (Vivid, Natural, Cinema...).

Using my PC I can play the original avi file without errors (you can check it using VLC - also with reduced speed).

I would like to say that my TV displays these type of errors also with live TV shows (by DVB-T tuner).

I don't know if they are software or hardware related (I hope software...).

I can only guess the cause, may be it's a problem with the:

* "Halo artifact reduction"
* or "Movie de-judder and motion blur reduction"
That's it. I looked at your video and I didn't notice any problems... until I realised I had PNM disabled. As soon as I put it at Minimum, your artifacts were there.

So... this is a software problem, caused by Perfect Natural Motion (no matter what setting, as long as it is activated), in all Firmware versions ranging back to at least 140.25.


By the way, I also put up a new test picture, that shows the subtitle dimming problem (http://www.supportforum.philips.com/en/showthread.php?1265-Dimming-problem-every-time-subtitles-appear-on-32PFL9705&p=11442#post11442) even more clearly. If you... and everyone else, like Philips... ;) could take a look at it again with firmware 140.40?... Thanks again in advance! :)

Adamo
08-31-2011, 10:07 PM
Hi Adamo, :)

sorry it took me so long to answer your message...


That's it. I looked at your video and I didn't notice any problems... until I realised I had PNM disabled. As soon as I put it at Minimum, your artifacts were there.

So... this is a software problem, caused by Perfect Natural Motion (no matter what setting, as long as it is activated), in all Firmware versions ranging back to at least 140.25.

Hi Freddy, :)

thank you very much for having found the origin of the problem!
It is true, if I disable the Perfect Natural Motion the images are ok, if I enable it there are artifacts. :confused:
I hope that Philips will look at this software problem and solve it.



By the way, I also put up a new test picture, that shows the subtitle dimming problem (http://www.supportforum.philips.com/en/showthread.php?1265-Dimming-problem-every-time-subtitles-appear-on-32PFL9705&p=11442#post11442) even more clearly. If you... and everyone else, like Philips... ;) could take a look at it again with firmware 140.40?... Thanks again in advance! :)

I've tryed your test picture and the dimming bug is still there (my TV is 32pfl9705h, fw 140.40). :(

Thanks,
Adamo

mbkeen
09-19-2011, 09:25 PM
Hello again everyone! :)

For one of the two New Bugs I mentioned in the opening post of this thread:


The problem is that around two times an evening, at high contrast borders in the picture (in dark/black regions next to brighter objects), I see some white pixels flashing.
These flashes are just that: very short flashes. They are not confined to certain areas on the screen, they are confined to these, as I called them, high contrast border regions. When they happen once, they will happen a number of times after that: around five to ten times, 3-15 seconds apart. And then they're gone again for a number of hours.

This has been confirmed by a couple of other people around the web, with different sizes of the PFL9705 and with different firmware versions. Some say the "Clear LCD" setting seems to effect this bug.


I finally have been able to catch it on camera, so you can see it for yourself... in case you didn't notice it in person yet:
Flashes.MP4 - 4.2 MB (http://uploading.com/files/2629626c/Flashes.MP4/)

So Philips!?... :rolleyes: Now that it's out there, I really hope you will be able to solve this... and those few other New and Old Bugs in the opening post of course!... ;)

Thanks again in advance!

Freddy

I have this problem also on 32in 9705 and have tried to ring through to get it sorted a few times (I just get told to update to the latest software and leave try again - I've been running .40 since its release and its not improved). I am trying again tomorrow. It has happened through various software updates. I am slightly worried as I approach the end of the first year warranty it will never be fixed, but luckily through my purchaser I have a 5 year one so will not give up.

I also had the sound drop problem but .34 and later it seems to have stopped for me (my set up is Pace Sky+HD box via HDMI).

Thanks Freddy for capturing the flashing on video and showing me I'm not alone.

Philips - please advise theories as to what might cause this and how we can minimise and ideally eradicate. Length of time viewing, content type, settings seem to have minimal impact and it appears to be random.

Freddy
09-19-2011, 10:33 PM
Thanks Freddy for capturing the flashing on video and showing me I'm not alone.
Yes, that's what you start to think, when you're being told you're the first one with this problem, again and again... :rolleyes:

Philips - please advise theories as to what might cause this and how we can minimise and ideally eradicate. Length of time viewing, content type, settings seem to have minimal impact and it appears to be random.Well, maybe it's not completely random. Before I tell you what (I think) I noticed, could you tell me exactly how you use your tv on a daily basis? With that I mean, do you just turn it on, sit down and watch?... Or do you use the tv to do all kinds of little things, like going through the Home menu, use NetTV, change (Smart) settings, etc?...

mbkeen
09-19-2011, 10:51 PM
Yes, that's what you start to think, when you're being told you're the first one with this problem, again and again... :rolleyes:
Well, maybe it's not completely random. Before I tell you what (I think) I noticed, could you tell me exactly how you use your tv on a daily basis? With that I mean, do you just turn it on, sit down and watch?... Or do you use the tv to do all kinds of little things, like going through the Home menu, use NetTV, change (Smart) settings, etc?...

Hi, yes I pretty much just turn it on and watch. I watch it 99% of the time via the Sky+HD box which is connected via a QED HDMI lead. When I do watch DVDs they are fed via an Xbox and component cable (I have probably watched a maximum of 5 DVDs in 8 months of ownership and not played any games in that time).

I have as many settings / features set to zero or off as possible (e.g. Sharpness, NR, all perfect pixel options, dynamic backlight, light sensor etc) but I do have the ambilight on. It is connected via Wi-fi to the home network, but the flashing also happened when connected via a network cable.

This evening it has flashed on HD and non-HD pictures and in news, drama, sport and film. I havent consciously noticed a single trigger, sometimes I think it only happens after multiple hours of continuous use but then sometimes very soon after I turn it on it happens. Also it does not always repeat for the same program, ie the same exact program (recorded via sky+) can cause the flashes one day and not the next, even when the first viewing was via playback as well (rather than first transmission).

Freddy
09-19-2011, 11:37 PM
Well, first of all, as I said, it only happens in those so called "high contrast border regions" of the picture.
That's the same for you?...

And it has nothing to do with the source, or the time.

Just when the picture is full of such "high contrast border regions", that can trigger it.

And painfully enough, one of those "high contrast border regions" are the tv's own menu's, especially those animated ones you see in the Adjust menu, when you turn on Ambilight or change the Smart picture setting, for example.

I noticed that since I'm not using those animated Adjust menu's anymore, while it still happens, it happens far less often than before. As I said, before it happened two or three times a day. Now I would say it happens maybe two times a week, so... That's an interesting difference, isn't it?... :)

But, as said, this does not solve the problem. It just makes it a little less problematic for me. Hopefully it provides Philips with a clue where to look for the real cause and solve it, though.

mbkeen
09-21-2011, 03:59 PM
Update - engineer came and took tv away today, said potential problem is damaged/broken connection to the screen but not seen exactly the same problem before. Now its a 7-10 day wait to see what happens.

Freddy
09-21-2011, 04:55 PM
But was it exactly the same for you as I described it: only happening in those "high contrast border regions" of the picture?... And how often did it happen in your case?...

mbkeen
09-21-2011, 05:13 PM
once it started that would be it for the night / next couple of days doing it all the time so its really annoying to watch. then it would go a few days/week without it happening again.

its most visible in the high contrast border regions but difficult to confirm its only in those places and the same program can do it one day and not the next.

Fernweh
09-25-2011, 11:56 AM
I still have issues with my 40PFL9705K/02 TV running Firmware 000.140.040.000 and my BDP9600/12 Blu-ray Player running Firmware V1.56.

1) TV: Channel switching audio issue:
When using DVB-T in Germany, it sometimes happens, that after switching channels, no audio can be heard. Switching back and forth brings back the audio.

2) TV + Blu-ray Player: Interaction of TV with Blu-ray Player:
The interaction between 40PFL9705K wasn't good since day one.
- A major issue is, when both, TV and Player, are off and switching on the Player, the TV starts automatically. Under such circumstances, the TV sometimes forgets many settings. e.g. it completely firgets any Ambilight settings and they need to configured again from scratch. Sometimes then, it doesn't save the settings on first attempt.
- Another issue is, that the Player options do not always show in the TV settings menu. Sometimes the show up and still stay even when the Player is already switched off. This is an unpredictable behavior.

3) Blu-Live bug with Blu-ray Player:
There are still constellations when some Blu-rays do not play when a network connection is present and a Blu-ray does have the Blu-Live feature. The Blu-ray then plays once but not a second time. As a workaround it does only help to clear the disc cache and to disconnect from the internet. Enableing Bl-Live Security didn't help.

Toengel
09-25-2011, 12:03 PM
Hi,

for bullet 3). Can you please make a thread in the corresponding BDP9000 series forum? Also post the bar codes (printed on the cover) for these BDs.

Toengel@Alex

Freddy
09-25-2011, 01:33 PM
2) TV + Blu-ray Player: Interaction of TV with Blu-ray Player:
The interaction between 40PFL9705K wasn't good since day one.
- A major issue is, when both, TV and Player, are off and switching on the Player, the TV starts automatically. Under such circumstances, the TV sometimes forgets many settings. e.g. it completely firgets any Ambilight settings and they need to configured again from scratch. Sometimes then, it doesn't save the settings on first attempt.
Depending on whether or not you actually want both devices to be switched on with just one push of a button, you can disable this behavior in the BDP settings: go to "EasyLink - One Touch Play" and set this option to Off.
In case the tv seems to have "forgotten" certain settings, you don't have to set them all over again: just put the tv on stand-by, wait a minute, and turn it on again. Now everything should be as it was. :)

Freddy
09-29-2011, 12:55 AM
Update - engineer came and took tv away today, said potential problem is damaged/broken connection to the screen but not seen exactly the same problem before. Now its a 7-10 day wait to see what happens.Any news yet?... :)

Freddy
10-27-2011, 02:39 PM
Unfortunately, there is still nothing new to report here... :(

Freddy
11-24-2011, 11:54 PM
Hello again everyone!

For one of the two New Bugs I mentioned in the opening post of this thread:


The problem is that around two times an evening, at high contrast borders in the picture (in dark/black regions next to brighter objects), I see some white pixels flashing.
These flashes are just that: very short flashes. They are not confined to certain areas on the screen, they are confined to these, as I called them, high contrast border regions. When they happen once, they will happen a number of times after that: around five to ten times, 3-15 seconds apart. And then they're gone again for a number of hours.

This has been confirmed by a couple of other people around the web, with different sizes of the PFL9705 and with different firmware versions. Some say the "Clear LCD" setting seems to effect this bug.


I finally have been able to catch it on camera, so you can see it for yourself... in case you didn't notice it in person yet:
Flashes.MP4 - 4.2 MB (http://uploading.com/files/2629626c/Flashes.MP4/)


I have a few updates:

- first of all, those flashes are no longer made of only white pixels. All possible coloured pixel flashes can be seen now.
- they are still happening in dark/black regions, but not necessarily next to bright objects. Slightly brighter, yes.
- and contrary to my last message on this subject, the frequency is back at what I said in the original post (around two times an evening, five to ten flashes, 3-15 seconds apart).

Does anyone know yet what is causing this and, most importantly, how it can be solved?...

Toengel
11-25-2011, 07:43 AM
Hi Freddy,

on my TV I never saw these flashings. But your video is good. As one can see, this is not a panel problem, cause it is content dependent (mouth of the woman).

Do I have this bug in my bug list?

Toengel@Alex

Freddy
11-25-2011, 02:08 PM
Hallo Alex, :)

I've just went through your bug list and no, it wasn't in there yet. So I put it in my reply there, along with two other bugs and one feature request that weren't in your list yet.

Musta
11-26-2011, 04:22 PM
Hello.

I just bought 40PFL6606T/12 tv and put newest firmware in it.I notice some problems with external subtiles.
They doesn't show in the filefolder but from remote control i can get it on.Texts are going too fast or somehow rapidly blinking on about one minute and then they dissappears.Also fontsize is way too small.
These happens with avi+srt, mkv+srt files from usb.Sound and video works perfectly.
Is Philips going to fix this in near future?

durtro
11-26-2011, 09:26 PM
Hello again everyone!

For one of the two New Bugs I mentioned in the opening post of this thread:


The problem is that around two times an evening, at high contrast borders in the picture (in dark/black regions next to brighter objects), I see some white pixels flashing.
These flashes are just that: very short flashes. They are not confined to certain areas on the screen, they are confined to these, as I called them, high contrast border regions. When they happen once, they will happen a number of times after that: around five to ten times, 3-15 seconds apart. And then they're gone again for a number of hours.

This has been confirmed by a couple of other people around the web, with different sizes of the PFL9705 and with different firmware versions. Some say the "Clear LCD" setting seems to effect this bug.


I finally have been able to catch it on camera, so you can see it for yourself... in case you didn't notice it in person yet:
Flashes.MP4 - 4.2 MB (http://uploading.com/files/2629626c/Flashes.MP4/)


I have a few updates:

- first of all, those flashes are no longer made of only white pixels. All possible coloured pixel flashes can be seen now.
- they are still happening in dark/black regions, but not necessarily next to bright objects. Slightly brighter, yes.
- and contrary to my last message on this subject, the frequency is back at what I said in the original post (around two times an evening, five to ten flashes, 3-15 seconds apart).

Does anyone know yet what is causing this and, most importantly, how it can be solved?...

No idea but I've seen similar in in my tv too. One was a still picture from a movie where one of the frame corners was constantly adjusting and thus it "blinked" in brightness. Another one I don't know if it is the tv or the pc graphics cards but it is similar to the one you described. After some time when seeing a 1080p video for example the white flashs start. If I stop the video they go away after while. Starting the movie again and after a while they start again. In my case it doesn't appear to be related with contrast and so I don't know if it is the tv.

Nonetheless I do think this tv has too many image and other problems considering its price.

Freddy
01-18-2012, 03:45 PM
Updated the bug list in the first post to the 140.46 state.

Sofus
02-13-2012, 12:20 AM
The lack of an 4:3-setting (formerly:"normal") should be considered a FAULT on a top-of-the-line TV. Especially the larger screens. I rank geometry - the shape/form of image content - as the basic criteria concerning picture quality. With CRTs this was always a bit tricky- circles were never perfect (but always a tiny bit egg-like) and paralell lines were never totally paralell etc. On digtal TVs geometry should not be a problem. It seems most people don't care about this and prefer to "fill the screen" even if thir favourite actor becomes very fat and are happy with letterboxed 4:3-content on a widescreen TV. But the ones that buy the 9000 -series are concerned about picture quality and should not be deprived of the option to get the right proportions. I guess the majority of existing (incl older) video-content (TV-productions, home video) is 4:3. This important format should be an option on any TV!

stripwax
11-11-2012, 09:55 AM
- The second "new" bug is a "funny" one... Again I will try to describe it as accurately as possible, as capturing it on video requires a good camera and a steady hand.

This problem happens only with "Dynamic Backlight" = Off and "Clear LCD" = On. When the tv is turned on with these settings as described, everything looks fine. But after a while, ranging from 15 minutes to a couple of hours after the tv has been turned on, panning shots start to look very bad when bright colors are involved.
Say someone with a red shirt (or any other bright color) pans through the picture, then the color red seems to follow the shirt, juddering around half a centimeter behind where it should be.

Turning "Dynamic Backlight" on resolves it, but turn it off again and the problem returns immediately.
However, turning "Clear LCD" off also resolves it, but now the problem remains gone even after turning "Clear LCD" on again. So "Clear LCD" seems to reset a certain timing that can get out of sync under some circumstances, like I described.

Freddy

I too have had this (or something described very much like this) - in particular for strong red colours in panning shots (but also to a lesser extent any strong red colours because cameras never stay rock still for long). In fact this has been the only issue with my 40PFL9705/H that has really been annoying (maybe I am supersensitive to the effect, my friends tell me they can't see it).

I would describe it as looking like the red colour lags a few frames behind the other colours. Visually, the red colours diffuse out of the area they're supposed to be, and in a panning shot typically this results in smearing and a general greying of the original area.

I observed this with or without Clear LCD enabled, but usually only with PNM enabled and dynamic backlight enabled. I couldn't find any combination of settings to completely eliminate this, only disabling PNM appeared to make the effect less obvious (harder to tell if effect was eliminated given lower frame rates with PNM disabled)

I was running .47 firmware. Yesterday I downgraded to .27, disabled Clear LCD, and the problem appears to have totally gone away. It almost seems (as Freddy says) that something in the Clear LCD settings is incorrectly adjusting timings, and (in the case of the newer firmwares), it seems that the incorrect timings are always present. I am very happy with the visual quality of .27 (after one day's experimentation at least)

Freddy
11-11-2012, 12:43 PM
Interesting to hear your story! Please keep us posted. :)

And while you're happy with .27, may I suggest to go back one more version, because I expect you'll be extremely happy with .25! ;) Or was there a reason you chose .27?...