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View Full Version : lip sync issue bdp9600/46pfl9705/older AV amp



pjoslo
08-30-2011, 12:32 PM
I have an older Arcam AVR350 Reciever which i use for audio when watching BluRay.

The sound is fed into the Arcam's MCH inputs from the BDP9600 analog outputs. (The Arcam cannot extract HDMI Audio)

The Arcam is in direct mode, so audio is not processed in anyway, and all sync adjustments must be done on the BDP9600 (SW ver 1.56). Unfortunately no amount of adjustment will sync the HD audio soundtracks to the pictures displayed on the TV.
If i use (lower resolution) digital spdif then all works fine (sync of about 140ms is required), but HD analog audio was a big reason for my purchasing the BDP9600.

Does Audio Sync on BDP9600 affect the analog outputs at all?

Any ideas?

regards, pjoslo

kvic
09-04-2011, 06:22 AM
I'm seeing the same problem. I would think the "audio sync" feature in 9600 has no effect at all on all 9600 analog outputs. I think this is a major bug and apparently a big disappointment.

Could Philips engineers confirm and fix in the next firmware release, please?

kvic
09-06-2011, 05:21 PM
Philips,

I'm happy to provide more information to help you diagnose and fix the issue.
For me, this happens when I'm playing back MKV files.

I'm using BDP 9600/98. FW ver 1.56

thanks

pjoslo
09-06-2011, 09:03 PM
in my case it the problen is evident regardless of source - dvd/bluray and video files on external usb disc.
fw 1.56.

regards, PJ

kwinnie
09-07-2011, 10:30 AM
Hi pjoslo,

Please see if i have misunderstood anything there:
Your setup: BDP9600 <--HDMI--->Amp <---analog----> TV

Low resolution with 140 mini seconds audio delay works
HD with audio syn does not work...

Can you help connecting your TV and BDP9600 to see if this problem still occurs?

So, What I m thinking is this:
You setup like this

BDP9600 <--HDMI--->Amp <---analog----> TV

your amp will transfer the digital signal to conventional signal (cuz you mentioned it's spidf... so there is processing)... if this is the case, it may be due to your amp... the low resolution files are ok because the audio sync feature can rectify the delay of your amp... but for HD it delays the signal so much that cannot be rectified (because there are a lot more signals to be processed ...)

if you connect your BDP9600 and the TV directly and see there are no problem playing the HD file (lip sync is ok)... then it's more the prob of your amp...instead of the audio sync feature itself...

pjoslo
09-07-2011, 11:09 AM
my connections are:
Video: BDP9600 - HDMI - TV.
Audio: BDP9600 - Analog - Amp.
The TV/HDMI are not involved in audio chain.
BDP9600 does all D/A audio processing.

PJ

kvic
09-07-2011, 03:37 PM
Hi kwinnie, as pjoslo illustrated he got the problem description right. Let me try to iterate the problem here.

Path 1: BDP9600 > HDMI (video only) > TV
Path 2: BDP9600 > any of 9600's analog outputs (like 7.1 or stereo) > active speaker or AMP then speakers

The problem is there regardless AMP is involved or not. Here is why. On path 1, HD video signals these days takes significantly longer time to process. Think of the QDEO onboard 9600. Think of the video processing chips on the HDTV set. Their processing time together could add up to tens of milli-seconds or even close to 100 milli-seconds. Audio signals take much less time to process. That's why there is always a need for video-audio sync. In the case of Path 2, certain amount of audio delay has to be added by BDP 9600 so that video-audio will be in-sync.

The bug in BDP 9600 is that the "audio sync" feature under Option menu has no effect at all in delaying the analog audio output. I would think Philips has the hardware design right. Hence, to fix the problem will be a firmware change to apply user selectable delays on the digital audio signal that feeds the onboard 9600 analog circuitry before leaving the analog output.

cheers

Philips - Remko
09-09-2011, 09:32 AM
Dear customers,

Thanks for informing us about your analog audio / audio sync issue.
We are currently investigating your problem and will update you the progress in within 2 weeks.

Kindly regards,

Philips Forum Moderation Team

kvic
09-10-2011, 05:37 AM
thanks Remko. Waiting for some good news from Philips. :)

pjoslo
09-25-2011, 05:41 PM
Any updates on this issue Remko?

Philips - Remko
10-19-2011, 09:35 AM
Dear pjoslo,

We acknowledge your problem and are working on a fix.

Regards

CrazyHarry
10-30-2011, 01:07 PM
Hi knowledgeable Philips BDP product owners, I just wanted to throw my experience of this issue into the discussion.

I'm having the the same issue as the OP with my setup however I am the owner of a BDP7500B2(05). I'm going video out via HDMI direct to a Samsung TV and audio is going via 7.1 analogue out to a trusty but ageing Denon AVR550SD. As with the original post, sound appears to be ahead of video by a good few ms.

This condition is very noticeable when a Blu-ray plays back in native mode which is typically 1080P/24fps. However, as an idle experiment, I set video output to 1080P/60FPS on the BDP7500B2 and sound was then pretty much in sync (still a very slight delay but hard to detect).

I'd prefer to have no problem with native output but the switch to 60FPS does seem to be workaround, for me at least. I wonder if the OP or any other users experiencing this issue have tried this?

Still, fingers are crossed for a proper firmware fix :-)

pjoslo
10-31-2011, 09:27 PM
HI CrazyHarry! I've briefly tested tonight on two BluRays: Planet of the Apes-1968 and Black Country Communion-Live over Europe. In both cases choosing 1080p (with 130ms of delay) instead of my usual auto seems to have solved the problem :-) I'll test some more tomorrow and play with the various playback settings. Thanks for the tip!

(and if our results are confirmed then Philips MUST be able to implement a FW solution)

PJ

pjoslo
11-01-2011, 09:09 PM
tested some more with BluRays of Withnail & I and The Empire Strikes Back. Lips are in sync!!

CrazyHarry
11-01-2011, 10:15 PM
Hi PJ, I'm glad to see that this workaround is offering you some success - and you reminded me that I really must get a copy of Planet of the Apes '68 on Blu-ray. :)

I've viewed around 6 blu-rays and a couple of DVDs since changing to 1080P/60fps and all have been in sync. I do appreciate that the ideal for 1080P/24fps content is that is displayed in that resolution but so far I haven't noticed any viewing problems. I will continue to hold out hope that the Philips boffins provide a proper firmware update!

kvic
11-02-2011, 02:12 PM
I'm totally confused on this issue. I thought Philips confirmed there is no way to get in sync for the following situation.
- video through digital interface i.e. HDMI to TV
- audio through analog output i.e. onboard 7.1 outputs

Philips even said that the delay has no effect whatsoever to get video/audio in sync in the above situation. Now the audio delay suddenly has effect ??

pjoslo
11-02-2011, 03:30 PM
You are not the only one who is confused! Philips are quite confused as well it would seem...
Facts: given the scenario you describe in your post BluRays are almost unwatchable with the "auto resolution" or "native resoluton" setting. Audio delay has no effect. Choosing 1080p seems to correct the lipsync issues i'm experiencing..

estinto
12-31-2011, 01:13 PM
Hello I found a very annoying problem with the player and the two stereo RCA analog outputs,
Are of many ms in advance to the video and audio to hdmi.
The adjustment of the sync is ONLY HDMI and analog outputs for: what it all about?
I tried one thousand different settings of the video or audio without ever solving the problem.
I really hope that Philips will solve this problem quickly, otherwise all the goodness of the analog would be a real big lie.:mad:
Thanks and sorry for my poor English.
By

kwinnie
01-04-2012, 05:00 AM
changing it to 1800p doesnt help?

estinto
01-04-2012, 06:09 AM
Even if you set to 1080p the result did not change.
By