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jovain
09-08-2011, 12:36 PM
I've just bought a brand new 9600/12 blu-ray unit. The main reason for selecting 9600 was because it has high-quality 7.1 analog audio out. I have high-end home theater setup with separate pre-amp and separate power amps, feeding Dali's Euphonia series.

My connections from 9600 are:

9600 HDMI (video only) -> Optoma HD86 projector
9600 7.1 Analog Out -> analog pre-amp -> power amps -> speakers

After connecting 9600, I am very dissapointed. There are SEVERE sw bugs in Philips' audio firmware.

- Center channel IS NOT mixed to front main channels even when center speaker is set "off" in Philips speaker config menu
- Audio delay does not seems to have any effect to analog outs
- Severe lips sync problems, audio comes at worst more than 300ms before the image...

And the reason why I bought this unit, was like said, the advanced analog audio features....!

I am thinking of taking the unit back to the shop. Philips, any comments? Will updated and corrected firmware be available EVER for this model?

kvic
09-08-2011, 03:47 PM
Hi Jovain

Myself and another user on this forum share the same observation on the "audio sync" bug in 9600, aka "audio delay".

Hope to hear from Philips soon as analog audio output is a big marketing feature of 9600.

cheers

Philips - Remko
09-09-2011, 09:31 AM
Dear customers,

Thanks for informing us about your analog audio / audio sync issue.
We are currently investigating your problem and will update you the progress in within 2 weeks.

Kindly regards,

Philips Forum Moderation Team

kwinnie
09-09-2011, 09:41 AM
Can you please see if you are using the latest version FW. For the newly bought unit, the SW comes along maybe a older one.

You can download the FW here:
http://www.p4c.philips.com/cgi-bin/dcbint/cpindex.pl?scy=BG&slg=ENG&ctn=BDP9600/12&mid=Link_Software

jovain
09-09-2011, 11:09 AM
Thank you Philips - Remko for quick response.

Kwinnie, I had the latest firmware (1.56) already when I bought the unit.

ChristianZ
09-15-2011, 01:08 PM
Dear Phillips support team,

it's nice to hear, that you are carings for the existing bugs of the BDP9600. I found some mistakes in German menu items. Of course they are not severe as the audio problems - but do we have a chance to get them corrected if I sent you the correct translations?

Kind regards - Christian

Toengel
09-15-2011, 01:31 PM
Hi,

can you just post the incorrect translations? Thanks... Until now, I didn't recognized wrong translations... but I also don't search them...

Toengel@Alex

Philips - Remko
09-16-2011, 07:46 AM
Hi ChristianZ,

Thanks for your post. It would be great to receive the errors that you have found so
I can forward them to the corresponding people.

Thanks so much for your help!

kwinnie
09-16-2011, 08:59 AM
hi Christian, so happy to hear that you hv such an initiative :D
I actually have a post here: http://www.supportforum.philips.com/en/showthread.php?2162-Share-your-discoveries-for-the-UI-manual-quick-start-guide-language-mistakes...

Looking forward for your input!

jovain
09-27-2011, 01:22 AM
Philips support team; Since it is obvious you need to make new firmware release to correct the severe audio bugs I mentioned in original post, I would ask you to change also the speaker distance setting from 30cm step to 10cm or 5cm step. As any hifi guru can tell you, 30cm step is much too large to achieve coherence and integration between all speakers, even 10cm is streching it.

Philips - Remko
09-28-2011, 11:30 AM
Dear users,

The lipsync control will only work for HDMI connection. It will not work for the analog output.

Unfortunately, this is a limitation and cannot be solved via SW upgrade.


Regards

Toengel
09-28-2011, 11:32 AM
Hi,

that's really sad... :(

Toengel@Alex

Pacman
09-28-2011, 11:44 AM
I did not see that issue yet but I have my BDP connected to a HDMI receiver/amplifier.......it is strange though

Toengel
09-28-2011, 11:50 AM
Hi,

so it would be really nice, if the passthrough through TVs for DTS (HD) and DD (HD) would work:

BDP->HDMI->TV->HDMI ->Receiver

or

BDP->HDMI->TV->SPDIF->Receiver (in this case only 5.1, not HD versions of DTS and DD)

But at the moment, both setups don't work.

Toengel@Alex

sngbcn
09-28-2011, 11:59 AM
Hi Toengel@Alex,

This passthrough is not allowed because of HDCP protocol. So I wouldn't expect sw improvement.

My advice is to buy a home cinema that has the audio sync feature so you don't depend on "fixing" it on the source device nevermind the type of connection it has.

Regards,

kvic
09-28-2011, 01:47 PM
Hi Remko

It's not convincing. Do you have a technical explanation why SW cannot fix it?

One of the selling point of 9600 is the 7.1 analog outputs. The audio (7.1 analog) and video (HDMI) are expected to be out of sync in two parallel paths. Isn't it the first thing Philips should have considered of at design stage?

Do we misunderstand something here?

thanks

pjoslo
09-29-2011, 09:56 AM
Dear users,

The lipsync control will only work for HDMI connection. It will not work for the analog output.

Unfortunately, this is a limitation and cannot be solved via SW upgrade.


Regards

This response is unacceptable!

Philips sales pitch for the BDP9600 tells us of:
TI Burr-Brown DACs for highly detailed sound reproduction
Separate toroidal power supply for clean sound without noise
Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD MA for HD 7.1 surround sound
and "total audio-visual entertainment that rivals reality"

How can the device rival reality when the most basic of requirements - pictures and sound in sync - cannot be delivered?
Why design a device with separate audio power supply if the analog audio can't be matched to video?
Why add analog outputs at all?

And if this limitation is present, as you suggest why is it not mentioned in any of Philips manuals? (other limitations such as no HD from component are mentioned)
Why does adjusting lipsync in menu mute the analog audio out if the two are independant?

PJ

Philips - Remko
09-30-2011, 08:37 AM
Dear users,

The reason is that the HW of the BDP9600 was not designed to do that. The lipsync feature was only added in a later stage in the project, at that time the HW was already finalized.

Regards,

kvic
10-01-2011, 01:58 AM
dang....worst nightmare comes true.
Though I haven't tried, I bet the 7.1 analog outputs were only designed to go along with analog video outputs!

sad indeed Philips engineers overlooked this.

jovain
10-01-2011, 08:51 PM
Philips, what about other bugs I listed? Center channel not mixed to main channels even when center is set off? Too long adjustment step for speaker distance? Are you going to correct those?

Please reply soon, I am getting ready to return my unit to shop because of unuseable analog 7.1 audio out, which was main purchase reason for me.

sopon
10-15-2011, 10:39 PM
I have the same problem with jovain. The player does not mix the center channel to L/R unless i reset the player and pick again "no center speaker". Then, if i switch it off and then again on, it loses this setup and while the center speaker is shown as not existed, it does not mix with L/R and you hear no dialogues.

But the most important is that it never mix the LFE-subwoofer channel to the others, if i declare all speakers as "large" and the subwoofer as "off". All the strong bass just disappears and i have no other option since i do not have a subwoofer for my system!I have confirmed it with my other DVD and with THX test tones from Starwars DVD; NO bass test tone with 9600 no matter all the possible settings i tried!
Please Philips, give as answer on this bass management/speaker setup bugs or tell us if there is a hardware problem with our players in order to return them back. It is realy a shame for such a good audio performance to deal with these basic issues. I bought the 9600 to upgrade my old marantz through its 7.1 analog input, and this does not work at all!

Stormen
11-13-2011, 08:23 PM
*bump*
Any comments from R&D on Philips, Is this audiosetting bug with no centerchannel (memory problem) gonna be fixed in next FirmWare realese
I have the same on 8000 series

juergen
11-14-2011, 06:59 AM
The same problem, the player does not mix the center channel to L/R unless i reset the player. Then I have to do the complete configuration again and it works till the next switch off....

I also bought the 9600 to upgrade my old yamaha 4600 by using the 7.1 analog input, and this does not work at all!

Stormen
11-14-2011, 07:16 AM
I found out that you dont have to factoryresett every time.

Put everyting in audiomenu back on:
BackSurround to "large". And center to "large"

The menu kinda hangs here for some seconds, you have to choose center twice for the changes to take effect.
Audiochipset now seems to be re-config. and back to default setting.

Now we can adjust center to "none" and it will work (until you power off again)
This gotta be a missing, either save script or that the saved settings are not read or overread by another application on startup. I mean the hardware is there and its working until you power off.

The strange thing is that "test tone" works great. But these settings in menu are not taken care of, prob beacuse autodetection of DolbyDigital on the disc at startup.


One temporary solution could be: disable auto power off function.The player will be turned on 24 hours until Philips can fix this.
Power: 25W
Standby: <0,2W

Stormen
11-14-2011, 08:33 AM
@ Sopon

Did you try to resett after each setting ? I realize that after some adjustment back and forth the audioprocessor hangs and will not respond back to any setting.
I just uppgraded from a new 8000 and got from my store a new 9600 in hope that it would solve the problem with center mixing.
( that was before I read this thread )
I will recive my new 9600 this week and I will try out the low freq. THX signals for the subwoofer. and see if I get the same results or can find a workaraound.

juergen
11-15-2011, 06:37 AM
Hi Stormen and thanks a lot, I have tried out the way you discribed:

"I found out that you dont have to factoryresett every time.
Put everyting in audiomenu back on:
BackSurround to "large". And center to "large"
The menu kinda hangs here for some seconds, you have to choose center twice for the changes to take effect.
Audiochipset now seems to be re-config. and back to default setting.

In my configuration it doesn't work, the center is not mixed until I have done the reset...

...eventually I did it not exactly the same way as you did...what do you mean with "you have to choose center twice for changes to take effect" ?

Stormen
11-15-2011, 04:56 PM
Ok. I'll get back in a few days with the right order.

Edit: The dealer sent me the wrong player (samsung 6900) LOL, I'm returning it and getting my money back, I aint gonna by a BDP 9600 until Philips has solved och say that they are gonna solve the audioproblem with this player )

New modells will arrive, (9600 is from okt 2010) They aint gonna develop new firmwares for this one forever. Ex the older 9500 (realesed dec 2009) latest firmware was in may 2010. So that's less than a year of firmware development.


It's sad, beacuse mixing the centerchannel is one of the main basic feutures that just are: suppose to work !
They have to fix this.

But if they are gonna fix this audiobug, I'm sure gonna stand first in line :-)

sopon
11-18-2011, 02:55 PM
As far as i can see, the problem with the center channel is general.
I put also emphasis on the problem of the subwoofer channel because i have not find a way to hear it so far through analogue connections and unfortunately i do not have a subwoofer to verify if it decodes this channel at all. Please, any feedback on this issue would be very helpful.
We have to put pressure on Philips to solve the problems because the player is simply not in accordance with its official specifications and the owners manual.
Last news from Philips in Greece is that the answer will not come soon and i have to wait. I hope that the delay has to do with their working on the solution...
sw v.1.60

Stormen
11-21-2011, 08:21 AM
The strange thing is that "test tone" works great. But these settings in menu are not taken care of, prob beacuse autodetection of DolbyDigital on the disc at startup.

The issue appears on both BDP8000/12 and BDP9600/12 model and on several players as far as we know, probably on every model in the program with same SW, 7500 etc. Has to be tested with a DVD or BD. Not the testtone. I had some people test at a Swedish forum that has 9600 player and they came upp with the same issue.

sopon
11-21-2011, 01:37 PM
Stormen you have 100% right. If you perform the 9600 built in test tones ,the speaker setup seems to work perfectly! But in the real redroduction from disc, the player just ignores its own settings.

You have to play a test tone program from a disc in order to discover the problem. I am using the THX audio tests from StarWars DVDs (all of them have it). And when it comes to subwoofer chanell . . .the silence!

jovain
11-27-2011, 09:47 PM
No support and no fixes to several audio bugs from Philips. And the piece of kit is marketed with advanced analog audio, Burr&Brown D/A and all that... Bad. Bad.

I have returned my unit to shop based on false marketing claims and non-functional analog audio, I recommend others do the same and get some decent player like Oppo etc. I am disappointed in Philips, and will not buy Philips Blu-ray player again. Ever.

sopon
11-30-2011, 05:19 PM
Hey Philips!
We have a big issue here!
Give as a tip of what we can expect as a solution for these bugs.
Is it software or hardware problem?
It is not right to buy a player that it is not functionable at its basics.
Philips in Greece has told me to wait. But for how long?

Philips - QK
12-01-2011, 01:39 AM
Dear all,

Our apologies for any inconvenience caused by this audio issue.

Please be reassured that we are looking into this as a priority.We will keep you all informed on the progress.

Thank you for your understanding and patience.

Kind regards,
Philips Moderation Team

Stormen
12-05-2011, 07:54 AM
So my conclusion is that this bug have been detected and reproduced by developers at Philips. Thats great news :D
(and 1400 readers of this thread) :cool:
Any pre date set for realese of new firmware ? would be nice to know if its aspected to be in jan, mars ? :confused:

a beta release to some customers by PM would be nice, I have backupfirmwares :D

Toengel
12-13-2011, 08:11 PM
- Center channel IS NOT mixed to front main channels even when center speaker is set "off" in Philips speaker config menu


Hi,

this has beed fixed in version 1.61: http://www.supportforum.philips.com/en/showthread.php?3639-BDP9600-Latest-Firmware-Upgrade-(1.61)-has-been-released

Toengel@Alex

Stormen
12-14-2011, 06:10 AM
Best news ever and really fast, I was hoping for a solution within a few months, but this was really fast. Hope they realese the same fix to BDP8000/12 that has the same problem. Way to go Philips !

sopon
12-14-2011, 08:41 PM
Philips,
You solved only the problem with the center speaker.
When will you fix the problem with the subwoofer/LFE channel?
There is still no mix to the front L/R speakers when you declare subwoofer [no] to the speaker setup.
For all of us that we have bought 9600 for upgrading our old amplifiers through analogue connections the player is simply defective.
Please, give us a fix as soon as possible.
Honestly, i am using 9600 only for stereo music!!! I am using my very old DVD player for watching movies; i have all the strong bass effects with it!

juergen
12-17-2011, 05:22 AM
The same problem with my equipment, still no mix of the LFE-channel to the front, only the center-mix does now work well.
When will the problem finally be solved???

Stormen
12-20-2011, 06:14 AM
I can confirm the mix of the "SW" to "L/R Front" isn't working, for ex when playing THX test on Starwars ep2. And the test puts out a low tone on SW channel. It's not mixed to the fronts. ( when subwoofer set to "no" ) It's completly silent.
There aint many Discs that you can find output only on the .1 (SW) Channel. But there is some testdiscs on the market.

BDP 9600/12 just got it from store with the new remote and all. (FW 1.61)

Don't know if this is the same problem as the center that got fixed in 1.61 beacuse the SW is never mixed to the front. even after a factoryreset. But PLEASE send this as quick as possible to the same guy/programmer who just fixed the center issue, He will probably know exactly what to do.

sopon
12-20-2011, 03:40 PM
Dear all,
I can further develop our thoughts on this problem;
Try to play the THX test tone from Star Wars dvd through the simplest analogue connection; L/R (not from 7.1 output). It is supposed that all the possible channels are downmixed only to L and R - and this has nothing to do with speaker setup.
So, one would expect to hear all the test tones playing, including the SW channel, right?
Well, it plays all, except the SW channel!
This thing sends the LFE channel only to the sub analogue output.
This is absolutely a big problem that must be solved by Philips.
We are not obliged to buy a sub in order to hear the LFE channel and when we bought 9600 there was nowhere a relative notification.
Philips, you must tell us what to expect in order to take our decisions.

Francesco
12-25-2011, 07:40 PM
I'm waiting for the new firmware too!

Regards

Francesco

estinto
12-30-2011, 06:51 PM
Hi, sorry for my poor English, I wanted to signal a problem audio player.
I use the two analog stereo RCA outputs to a stereo amplifier and the video HDMI to a Panasonic VPR, but also by varying the most out of sync audio, I can not reach a satisfactory result,
There will be opportunities with future upgrades to increase this value up to 300ms audio sync?
Thank you, confident in a prompt reply from Philips I wish you all a happy New Year and good parties.
by

Stormen
12-31-2011, 08:34 AM
Hi, sorry for my poor English, I wanted to signal a problem audio player.
I use the two analog stereo RCA outputs to a stereo amplifier and the video HDMI to a Panasonic VPR, but also by varying the most out of sync audio, I can not reach a satisfactory result,
There will be opportunities with future upgrades to increase this value up to 300ms audio sync?
Thank you, confident in a prompt reply from Philips I wish you all a happy New Year and good parties.
by

Hi there is some threads about this problem and there is no solution to it if I remember right, but there is less syncproblem if you output 1080i or 1080p

estinto
12-31-2011, 11:05 AM
Hello, sorry but it does not find the threads to the topic, can you give me the link?
I did not understand how I can reduce the audio sync, I am currently using 1080p/24Hz.
I can not believe it's a recognized problem and Philips does nothing to remedy ..... very very sad.
Thanks, By

P.S.
Sorry I only now realize that the adjustment of the delay in sync is only for HDMI.

Philips - Remko
01-05-2012, 10:20 AM
Hi all,

It is important to know that although the signal is downmixed, due to it’s low frequency, it cannot be heard.

We have looked and tested various times and even if the subwoofer was downmixed to the Front L/R, the effect also could not be obviously observed due to the low frequency from the Front L/R speakers.

Kind regards,

Stormen
01-05-2012, 12:10 PM
It is important to know that although the signal is downmixed, due to it’s low frequency, it cannot be heard.

Thats not correct, sry
Low Freq. can be heard if you have good and big full freq. speakers and amplifiers.

If you have a track with only output on .1 (sw) channel it is NOT mixed to the front speakers.

Ex try the Starwars THX sound test.

And Yes I have big enough frontspeakers to blow out the windows at any freq.
http://rauna.e-butik.se/rauna/images/sys/speakerwall.jpg

I also have a subwoofer that goes down to 18Hz (-3dB). But as I have so good frontspeakers a subwoofer only messes the audio up. So I dont have it conected.

I'm sorry but this issue has to be tested in a certain way. If I use my old DVD player and run the THX test a low freq sound is heard from the front speakers when testsignal is sending on sw.

sopon
01-05-2012, 03:35 PM
I am boiliing like the water in a 100 degrees centigrade!
This explanation is for the litlle ignorant kids, i do not believe my eyes!
There are obviously two possibilities;
a) The player is defective in its analogue connections and cannot be fixed by software update and Philips is trying to hide it by telling us this childish explanation.
b) The team, didn't manage to reproduce the problem correctly so they have to pay more attention to our oservations.
I hope that we are on the case b, and i have to make clear some things in order to help them find and solve the issue.
I do not have the monsters of stormen as L/R speakers, i have only the B&W 603 s3, and some quite old JBL TLX 18 with a quite big woofer for cross testing. But the problem is evident even with these speakers. Here is only one of my tests;
1. I am playing the THX Audio Test from Starwars DVD which contains pink noise for subwoofer testing (.1 channel).
2. I put sub to [no] on the 9600 speaker setup.
3. The relevant tone is not heard from the L/R speakers.
4. I disconnect one of the front speakers from my amplifier speaker output and i connect it to its (amplifier) sub output. All the 7.1 RF cables are connected from 9600 7.1 output to Marantz 7.1 inputs. I do not change the 9600 speaker set up as it does not work for the sub channel.
5. I play again the test and I HEAR THE TONE FOR THE SUBWOOFER FROM MY B&W FRONT SPEAKER WHICH NOW STANDS AS A SUB. In other words i am connecting my front speaker as a sub woofer and i can hear the tone normally from it, even if it is quite low in frequency!!! So my speaker is capable of reproducing the sub test tone 100%.
6. I connect again all my speakers in their correct place and i play the test changing in the 9600 speaker setup the sub from [no] to [yes] and v.v. trying to hear the same tone as in step 5 from the same speaker; NOTHING.

THE SUB TEST TONE IS NOT DOWNMIXED TO THE FRONT CHANNELS IN ANY CASE AND IT IS ONLY REPRODUCED THROUGH THE SUB CHANNEL (.1) ANALOGUE OUTPUT EVEN IF YOU HAVE PUT SUBWOOFER [NO] TO 9600 SPEAKER SETUP. OR; IF YOU DON' T HAVE A SUBWOOFER YOU LOSE COMPLETELY THE LFE CHANNEL.PERIOD!

And finally, if i disconnect 9600 and connect with the same way my old, ancient, model 2000, SONY DVP 725, and play the test tone having put in its menu that there is no subwoofer to my system, I HEAR NORMALY THE .(1) TEST TONE FROM MY FRONT SPEAKERS. SIMPLE!!!!!!

Dear Philips, we are not writting in this forum for entertainment, we are here because we deal with a problem with a product of yours that it is supposed to give us the real entertainment. I can also say that 9600 is not a KIA but a BMW!! And of course we are not begginers!

If your 9600 is good, send a new one in Philips Hellas for me to test it and replace my defective device. But what about all the others?
Are we all ignorants?
Please try again.

kwinnie
01-06-2012, 12:54 AM
Stormen, i cant believe my eyes! your wall is just too stunning! :)

Stormen
01-13-2012, 08:11 AM
@ kwinnie,, yeah, they are good. I ealier worked with repairing consumer electronics, Tv's, amplifiers etc and I today like to build my own amplifiers, turntable etc. I later educated to an audioengineer level and worked some in studios. Thats where I met the owner of Rauna and Opus3 who made recordnings and speakers known over the world. These monsters are one of his latest constructions. But now in my garage I', building a 4x 12" tricolumn horn speaker. Thats where Hifi goes over to insanity :-)

It's a bit tricky to find this audio bug with SW channel not mixed, and I'm trying to understand the answear from philips on how they tested. But as I can read it out: The techician tested by sending low freq on all the output-channels at the same time. Therefor the answear that they cant hear the SW channel mix to the fronts beacuse of the low freq output that is already from the fronts.
The only way to test this is to have a DVD/or mediafile with audio recorded only on the .1 (don't use the built in speakers test in the bdp9600 menu)

I'm thinking of making one of my own test DVD using Steinberg Nuendo where a testsignal is sent to one speaker at each chapter, and send to philips.
There is no way Sopon and I can be more clearly in our desciption of this bug in the firmware.

Toengel
01-13-2012, 08:16 AM
Hi,

maybe an AC3-File or a MKV with a AC3 audio track is sufficient (with a .1 audio stream).

Toengel@Alex

Stormen
01-13-2012, 12:11 PM
Yeah, that should do. I just tried these 5.1 test files at home.

just unrar and play through your network.

http://www.tfm.ro/win32-projects/test-avi-ac3/


or here, there is some mumbling at the end that is .1 channel
http://www.lynnepublishing.com/surround/www_lynnemusic_com_surround_test.wma

Setup BDP9600/12 FW 1,61: Connecting amplifiers at the 7.1 RCA connectors.
Front: Large
Center: No
Surround: Small
backsurround: No
Subwoofer: No

blaster
01-19-2012, 12:56 PM
Hi to all,
I have a 9600 since 2 weeks and like it a lot. I also use it via analogue audio to my receiver and it took me quite a while to get it running, but now it works.
I have a normal 5.1 speaker set and the sub didn't work, or at least it didn't seem to work. Now it does but only if I set the front speaker to small.
I don't have the same problem as some others in this thread but my question is somehow related to it so I dare to post it here:

What effect does the front speaker setting to "small" or "large" have on the frequency spectrum the 9600 sends to the receiver on the both front channels?
Is the frequency spectrum identical and it only turns the .1-channel on (small front speakers) or off (large front speakers)?

Considering previous posts here (e.g. sopon) I tend to assume that there is no effect to the actual frequency spectrum to the front speakers, I just would like to have it confirmed.
At this time I'm not in the situation wanting the LFE in any case send to the front speakers like sopon, but maybe in the future, so I'm very interested in this topic in any case. Full or more flexibility in the speaker setup would suit the 9600 very nicely.
Perhaps somebody has tested this out. Or a statement from Philips would be appreciated.
Thanks for any reply in advance

sopon
01-20-2012, 01:12 PM
Dear blaster,
In theory, when you define front speakers as "small", 9600 automatically turns the sub "on".
So, now you can hear from the sub two things;
a) The content of the LFE channel from a multichannel program (for ex. DD).
b) The low frequencies from Front L and R channels that cannot be played from your "small" speakers and they are directed to your sub. The threshold for cutting those frequencies from the front channels is predefined for the 9600 or it can be set by the user in other players that have full bass management.

So, if L/R = small =>> we have the above (b) changes in the signal for the front speakers.
But, what you have to check is what is happening if you define that you DO NOT have a sub.
Does the LFE channel goes to the Front (Large) speakers as it should be in theory?
It is very easy for you to check while you have a sub in your system.
Just set sub=no, Front=Large, run a 5.1 test tone program from 9600 (receiver mode;direct), and tell us if you hear the
LFE test tone from your Front speakers.
I predict for your test that you will still hear the LFE test tone from your sub!

IMPORTANT; if you do not have a 5.1 speaker test tone, like for example THX audio test from Starwars DVDs, you cannot say anything for sure about our issue.

SUM; we should hear whatever we define in 9600 speaker setup menu! Any deviation from this, is a PROBLEM!

blaster
01-22-2012, 07:49 AM
@ Sopon,
thanks for your reply and the time you took to do it.

I've now done the full test with the test tones as linked above in this thread. They work good. I especially like that the LFE goes from higher to very low frequency.
Here are my results:
My 9600 is connected via 5.1 analogue to my receiver, my front speakers are compact Elac (but not satellites, so they are capable of producing fairly decent bass).
In the following examples the speaker config for the 9600 for Front / Center / Surround / Sub (not rear speakers connected, always set to none).
1. Small / small / small / On
I hear the test tones correctly from all speakers including the LFE only from the sub
2. Large / small / small / On
Also correct, to me identical to 1.
3. Large / small / small / Off
All speakers are correct, no LFE on sub, but also no LFE-signal from front speakers which I would expect, simply no LFE at all.
4. Small / small / small / Off
Not possible to set in the speaker config.

So everything makes fairly sense, except test 3. where the LFE part is lost.
Then I have done some real music test.
First a HD-5.1 disc of George Benson. Speaker setting was 2. (Large/small/small/On) and it sounded ok including bass from the sub.
Then I put a normal CD in. Same setting 2. as above. And no signal on the sub. So the 9600 figured that Large front speaker can do everything. Here I would like to combine full sound range from both front speakers and in parallel also on the sub, but the 9600 thinks differently.
Same CD, speaker setting to 1. (Small/small/small/On). And here the sub is used by the 9600 which is basically okay, except that I don't have satellites and would like the full sound range from the front speakers (as low as they can go) as well a supporting sub in parallel.

And this brings me to my initial question of my first post: how is the frequency range for front speakers set to small limited by the 9600? If there is a .1-signal on the source, it seems okay, but without any .1-signal like on a normal CD the setup possibilities to me seems very limited.
Hey Philips, what do you have to say to that, please give me your comment!

sopon
01-22-2012, 12:23 PM
As far as i can understand from your testing, i see two main issues;

a) In your configuration #3, you verify that if we set sub = no, the LFE is not directed to the front channels, so we have a PROBLEM.

b) The content of a common CD is a 2 channel material and it does not contain a separate LFE channel. So, the only case to hear something from your sub, is by defining your front speakers as "small". Then the player drives their low frequencies to the sub (by cutting them from the front channels).

I don't know if there is a player that can support both "large" front speakers and active sub with stereo program (except the pseudosurround systems). In that case there would be an overlap in low frequencies. The fronts and the sub would play the same thing! In theory, small front speakers cannot reproduce low frequencies so you need a sub to cover this disadvantage! We must also understand that LFE is not bass in general, but a separate channel for specific designed Low Frequency Effects.


I would be very happy if PHILIPS could give us a solution to our primary PROBLEM.

(Or perhaps they could give us a proper audio test program to verify their argument that there is not such a problem!!!)

sopon
01-22-2012, 01:56 PM
After my last post, i tried stormen's very nice and useful audio test. I used one of my JBLs as a sub this time, and the LFE test tone was easily reproduced by it.

The PROBLEM is self-proving for one more time!!!

I only want to correct a minor detail; in one of my previous posts i had the false impression that no matter [yes] or [no] for the sub in speaker setup, the 9600 would still direct the LFE to the SUB Analogue Output. This is not true, as i saw today.
If you put [yes], you hear the test tone from the sub.
If you put [no], you do not hear the test tone from the sub (as i had previously written). But nor from the Fronts! LFE is just disappearing! Exactly as blaster says.

Well, this doesn't affect the core of our PROBLEM. But this little program can be truly a reference between us and PHILIPS.
Come on PHILIPS, tell us the news!!!

blaster
01-22-2012, 03:26 PM
@ sopon,
your correction of your statement about the sub playing LFE indedepently of the player setting is okay. It is as I have tested it and as you have found out yourself as well.
So as far as I'm concerned, I guess, my question is comparatively minor. I just would like to know.

On the other side I see a certain sense in what the player does. In case one has a 5.1 system you want the .1-signal and there is a sub to play it. And in case one has a 5.0 system with huge front speakers one deliberately does not seem to want the .1-signal. I don't have much experience in setting up surround-system so I can't really judge whether this setup is used often or not.
One thought to your problem is that perhaps it could be solved in the receiver/amplifier. I.e. the receiver/amplifier gets the .1 signal from the player and mixes it with the stereo signals to the front speakers.

Have a nice week, Sopon.

sopon
01-23-2012, 09:16 PM
Dear blaster,
Unfortunately, your argument is wrong.
You have to make clear to your mind that "channel" is not the same thing as "speaker".
Speaker setup menu exists in all devices decoding multichannel formats in order to properly adapt and adjust
the signal to the available speakers of your home cinema.
When you buy the 9600, nobody tells you that you have to buy also a subwoofer in order to hear the LFE channel!
On the other hand, Philips is advertising the quality of the analogue part of the 9600, and its 7.1 analogue outputs.
According to your logic, one has to install 7.1 speakers in order to hear a multichannel program.
Things, of course are not designed this way! You have the ability to enter the speaker setup menu and say; i have these speakers connected, they are smal or large, i have or i have not a sub. And the player mixes the signal accordingly, in order to hear all the content of your program, regardless of the available speakers! (LFE channel included)
If i don't have a sub connected, it doesn't mean at all that i don't want the LFE channel!
On the contrary, i need the player to mix it to the front L/R in order to hear it someway. And believe me, if you have a descent set of front speakers, not to mention the monsters of stormen, a sub could be a waste of money and room.
What would you say, for example, if you didn't have a center speaker? Would you lose the dialogues? Of course not; by entering the setup, the player would mix it (after 1.61 update!!!) to the front channels. The same is for LFE channel!
It is needless to say that the optimum surround effect is possible with all the 5.1 or 7.1 speakers. But everyone is free to determine the number of speakers for his system! This is the meaning of "speaker setup menu"!

My Marantz amplifier, in 7.1 analogue input mode, doesn't allow changes in the incoming signal. You can call it "direct mode". And finaly, this is what we want; The purity of 9600 analogue sound quality! Bypassing, is not a solution anyway.

I won't get tired to write for one more time; We have a serious PROBLEM here Philips! And as you see, it is present in all 9600s. Do something at last for this.

Stormen
01-30-2012, 10:32 AM
Hi
Itīs a bit frusterating that we don't know if you at Philips are looking into this problem again ?
Unrar and play this test audio file through the network.
http://www.tfm.ro/win32-projects/test-avi-ac3/

Toengel
01-30-2012, 11:04 AM
Hi,

I will also go into this discussion - give me some days ;-) I need to do some tests at home.

Toengle@Alex

Toengel
01-31-2012, 08:50 PM
Hi,

my test with http://www.tfm.ro/win32-projects/test-avi-ac3/ (http://www.tfm.ro/win32-projects/test-avi-ac3/)

Since I have no SUB connected to my AMP I connected my front left speaker to the sub output. With the test sample I could hear the LFE test tone. So, one is able to hear the sub channel on my front speaker. This is my first observation.

Now my tests:
L/R: Large or Small // Center: off // SL/SR: off // RL/RR: off // Sub: on
SL/SR and Center are mixed to L/R
Sub test tone can be heard

L/R: Large or Small // Center: off // SL/SR: off // RL/RR: off // Sub: off
SL/SR and Center are mixed to L/R
Sub output is silent (well, it's off), but Sub test tone is not mixed to L/R

L/R: Large or Small // Center: off // SL/SR: Large or Small // RL/RR: off // Sub: off
Center is mixed to L/R
Sub output is silent (well, it's off), but Sub test tone is not mixed to L/R

L/R: Large or Small // Center: Large or Small // SL/SR: Large or Small // RL/RR: off // Sub: off
Sub output is silent (well, it's off), but Sub test tone is not mixed to L/R


My conclusions:

center is mixed correctly to L/R
SL/SR is mixed correctly to L/R
Sub is NEVER mixed to L/R

Test were done with firmware 1.61.

Question to the other testers:

Did the mix-up of the sub to L/R worked in the past with any firmware? For example, 1.56?

Toengel@Alex

Philips - Remko
02-01-2012, 07:46 AM
Dear users,

We are aware of the issue relating to the audio configuration when downmixing the audio signal to front L/F speakers. We cannot provide a timeline yet on when the solution will be available. However, we would like to reassure you that we are looking into the matter with high priority.

Thank you for your understanding and patience in this matter.

Kind regards,

sopon
02-24-2012, 07:36 PM
New firmware 1.62 is available, but unfortunately it has nothing to do with the problem of LFE channel mixing!
How long we have to wait for our solution Philips?
9600 is now an old model and so far i have not been able to hear properly not even one movie!!!
Is it fair?

mikael_b
03-05-2012, 09:32 PM
Dear users,

We are aware of the issue relating to the audio configuration when downmixing the audio signal to front L/F speakers. We cannot provide a timeline yet on when the solution will be available. However, we would like to reassure you that we are looking into the matter with high priority.

Thank you for your understanding and patience in this matter.

Kind regards,

This thread is almost 6 months old, not high priotity in my universe, especially considering that this bug affects a rather basic function. I for one bought this unit based on its advertised analog audio capabilities and must confess I'm dissapointed. Hoping to see some speedy progress in this matter now.
Mike

Sofus
03-08-2012, 08:55 PM
BDP7600 has adjustable 0-200ms sound delay (it is a very nice "secret" found at the bottom of the options-menu - not in setup). Works (only) on analog 5.1/7.1! So if you have a non-hdmi receiver buy 7600, it is cheap and good and appearantly the only Philips player - or of any brand at a reasonable price - you can use. BTW 9600 suffer from the same "only stereo on hdmi when connected to a 2010 ARC TV syndrome" as 7500. 7600 works fine here too!

sopon
03-09-2012, 05:50 AM
It is two months ago that Philips told us to wait for the solution about the LFE mixing.
Not to mention the time passed since my official complains to Philips Hellas (October 2011).
It is high time to give us an update on this issue.
Is there a possibility to fix it by software update or not?
If not, then start thinking about our compensation.

mikael_b
03-10-2012, 07:56 AM
BDP7600 has adjustable 0-200ms sound delay (it is a very nice "secret" found at the bottom of the options-menu - not in setup). Works (only) on analog 5.1/7.1! So if you have a non-hdmi receiver buy 7600, it is cheap and good and appearantly the only Philips player - or of any brand at a reasonable price - you can use. BTW 9600 suffer from the same "only stereo on hdmi when connected to a 2010 ARC TV syndrome" as 7500. 7600 works fine here too!

Thanks for the info, but trust me, no way I'm gonna buy another Philips product to fix the problem with the 9600, that is not going to happen, Philips have to fix this, not me. Actually this overadvertised player is probably the last Philps product we buy, ever. The problem with it not playing some DVD audio tracks is another nail in the coffin.

Mikael

Toengel
03-10-2012, 08:17 AM
Hi,

what DVD-audio-track-problem do you have?

Toengel@Alex

Sofus
03-11-2012, 08:36 PM
no way I'm gonna buy another Philips product to fix the problem with the 9600, that is not going to happen, Philips have to fix this, not me.

Seems the hardware is the limiting thing here, so no fw-upgrade can fix the "no audio delay on analog" issue with 9600. Philips or the shop will not buy the player back. As long as it "works" (reads at least some disks so they can be seen on at least some TVs) my impression is that any attempt at haveing it fixed for free on guarantee just results in a "works fine, no repair necessary, customer must pay"-verdict. I have had endless and useless discussions with Philips over my bdp7500\PFL9705 giving only stereo on hdmi http://www.supportforum.philips.com/en/showthread.php?4532-Only-stereo-on-HDMI-what-TV-BD(DVD)-models-Why&highlight=stereo+hdmi.

sopon
03-27-2012, 01:00 PM
Version 1.63 has been released. BD Java improvements only!
NOTHING ABOUT LFE MIXING!
Please Philips, you have to let us know the truth;
Is this problem going to be solved by software update or not? And of course, when?

Philips - Remko
03-27-2012, 01:10 PM
Hi sopon,

As posted on 01/02/2012 we are aware of the issue relating to the audio configuration when downmixing the audio signal to front L/F speakers. We cannot provide a timeline yet on when the solution will be available.

Again I would like to reassure that we are looking into it but we cannot give any deadlines.

Kind regards

Philips - Remko
03-28-2012, 09:30 AM
Hi sopon,

I have send you a personal message, please check your inbox.

Kind regards

Stormen
03-29-2012, 09:58 AM
Again I would like to reassure that we are looking into it but we cannot give any deadlines
I'll bake you a cake ;)

Stormen
05-24-2012, 12:06 PM
Is there still work in progress on this task at Philips or is it killed ?

There can be other things that can bug with a complete rework of the audioconfig.
But we are some users (read: me) that can try out a beta or so just to see if this fixes the bug with LFE mixing to L/R Front. I'll be gladly to help out and try some pre-beta for the team.

sopon
05-24-2012, 08:36 PM
Months are passing and nothing is moving. We are looking forward to hearing from you the good news!!!

Philips - QK
05-28-2012, 05:39 AM
Dear all,

Checked last month with our development team, they replied they are still working on this architectual issue. I will check with them again and update you all on the status.

Kind regards,
Philips Moderation Team

Enjoyhifi
06-04-2012, 09:29 PM
Dear all,

Checked last month with our development team, they replied they are still working on this architectual issue. I will check with them again and update you all on the status.

Kind regards,
Philips Moderation Team

I find the Audio Sync of maximum 200ms is still not sufficient to sync with LG TV.. Will Philips increase the delay even further, 200ms just not long enough. Please look into this quickly, I am really disappointed with this product, my earlier Philips model DVD player is so much better, without those problems mention in this forum.

Enjoyhifi
06-05-2012, 01:23 AM
I find the Audio Sync of maximum 200ms is still not sufficient to sync with LG TV.. Will Philips increase the delay even further, 200ms just not long enough. Please look into this quickly, I am really disappointed with this product, my earlier Philips model DVD player is so much better, without those problems mention in this forum.

Will Philips consider creating a input box for user to set their own XXXms, this will propably solve the sync problem. There are some many TVs that have different time delay due to info processing, it becomes impractical to limit the time delay by upto 200ms. Furthermore, is the incremental step in term of XX ms is it too big a gap for seamless sync?

kvic
06-05-2012, 05:04 PM
I find the Audio Sync of maximum 200ms is still not sufficient to sync with LG TV.. Will Philips increase the delay even further, 200ms just not long enough. Please look into this quickly, I am really disappointed with this product, my earlier Philips model DVD player is so much better, without those problems mention in this forum.

Can you describe your usage a little bit? Under what scenario the Audio Sync actually has effect and works by delaying the audio output? ANd what's your firmware version?

Thanks

Toengel
06-05-2012, 05:23 PM
Hi,

are you using the audio delay with HDMI or SPDIF?

Toengel@Alex

Enjoyhifi
06-05-2012, 09:54 PM
Can you describe your usage a little bit? Under what scenario the Audio Sync actually has effect and works by delaying the audio output? ANd what's your firmware version?

Thanks

I am using hdmi output to the TV. The firmware is the latest one that was downloaded from Philips support website. I tried again last night to sync the audio and realized that the 200ms is sufficient delay but the step of 10ms is too just big, hence I am still not able to sync perfectly. My current audio delay is set at 110ms. Really I think in order to get sync perfectly, there should a input box to key in the XXX ms number for finer calibration.

sopon
06-06-2012, 01:57 PM
We are waiting for your update Philips!

Philips - QK
06-07-2012, 02:06 AM
Dear all,

Apologies to keep you waiting for this. But since it's an architectural issue, we have to take quite some months to resolve this. The estimated resolve date will be in Q3. We will check indeed if we can expedite it.

Thanks for your patience whilst we are resolving this issue.

Kind regards,
Philips Moderation Team

sopon
06-08-2012, 08:16 PM
Since the problem can be resolved, we have no alternative but waiting!!!
My only fear is the bad senario that finaly you will tell us that it cannot be solved.
I hope that this will not happen!
Keep up the good working.

sileem
07-03-2012, 10:12 AM
Did anyone know where to get MT8530KEFG (Madiatek bluray core IC used in BDP9600) detailed data sheet? I asking it to check is MT8530KEFG really missing possibility to delay IIS-bus audio output to DAC IC-s as support had announced.

kvic
07-08-2012, 04:19 AM
This is MediaTek's website: http://www.mediatek.com

How about contacting MediaTek to confirm if the I2S bus can be delayed with respect to the video signal?

sopon
08-02-2012, 02:11 PM
Any news about the new firmware Philips;
We are in Q3!!!

sopon
08-28-2012, 06:11 PM
No news, bad news.

9700 is on the way and i am still waiting to hear properly a movie from 9600!

Philips, give us an update of the current progress on our problem.

Or give us the magic new firmware!!!

sileem
08-28-2012, 07:47 PM
You can buy BDP9700 from http://www.otto.de/Philips-BDP9700-Blu-ray-Player-3D/shop-de_dpip_86877780-0-1001/?CategoryName=sh31345685&psmAssortment=570&psmArticle=868777&iwl=091&campId=4E138&locationId=LZ2#Detailinfos
I hope the remotr control is not same crap as for 9600.

Stormen
09-12-2012, 09:22 AM
Hi
PLS philips can you check again about the new firmware and expected realese we are into Q4 soon. 10 000 views in this thread about audioproblems, first "center" not mixed to L and R when set to "off" ( fixed in 1.61) Awsome work! , now sub-channel not mixed to L&R when set to "off" and some want delay to be increased.

Same issues also on the BDP 8000 series ;-)

Can you pls check again with development about realese of the FW1.64 for 9600

sileem
10-14-2012, 10:47 AM
I get BDP9700 user manual, by this audio and video synchronization from options menu works only with HDMI output on this player.

Oscar
10-16-2012, 11:59 AM
Hi Sileem......donīt understand what you mean :confused:

sileem
10-16-2012, 01:01 PM
It means you can not synchronize multichannel analog audio output and video on BDP9700. But you can synchronize audio and video if both are output from HDMI (digital). Same "feature" as on BDP9600.

Oscar
10-16-2012, 01:26 PM
Might be worth to start a new thread about this instead of adding it to an old one

sileem
10-16-2012, 01:47 PM
I made this post here because many users still hope that synchronization of multichannel analog audio output and video will be available with new firmware on 9600, but if this is not available on 9700 it will very unlikely be on 9600.
Technically it must be possible as OPPO BDP-93 and 95 (they had same MT8530 Mediatek series bluray player core chip as BDP9600) had analog output delay possible: http://oppodigital.com/blu-ray-bdp-93/bdp9x-firmware-52-0707B.aspx
Oppo noted in firmware release notes that they had corrected analog output delay with new firmware.

Toengel
10-17-2012, 08:36 AM
Hi,

goode news: http://www.supportforum.philips.com/en/showthread.php?8495-BDP9600-Issue-on-LFE-downmixing&p=43090#post43090

Toengel@Alex

kvic
10-21-2012, 04:21 PM
I made this post here because many users still hope that synchronization of multichannel analog audio output and video will be available with new firmware on 9600, but if this is not available on 9700 it will very unlikely be on 9600.
Technically it must be possible as OPPO BDP-93 and 95 (they had same MT8530 Mediatek series bluray player core chip as BDP9600) had analog output delay possible: http://oppodigital.com/blu-ray-bdp-93/bdp9x-firmware-52-0707B.aspx
Oppo noted in firmware release notes that they had corrected analog output delay with new firmware.


Apparently OPPO has much better engineers than Philips.
Also OPPO firmware's language support is way better than Philips.

Philips - Marcus
03-21-2013, 08:18 AM
Dear users,

A PM has been sent to some of you regarding this case. Could you please kindly check your inbox?

Thank you!

Kind Regards,

Marcus @ Philips Moderation Team

Gerrit
03-22-2013, 12:17 PM
Dear Philips - Marcus,

If this is about synchronization of analog audio output and video in new firmware for the 9600, please inform me too.

Kind Regards,

Gerrit