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View Full Version : PCM output on OPTICAL OUTPUT 42PFL7606K



tiomiguel
11-01-2011, 08:02 PM
I have to know if I can adjust digital format in DIGITAL OUT in this TV, because I have an stereo amplifer with digital inputs that only want PCM 2CH sound.

Most TV let choose 2CH output or MULTICHANNEL output for OPTICAL OUTPUT, and I want to know if 42PFL7606K digital output is ALWAYS PCM 2 CH (perfect for me), DOLBY DIGITAL always, original format always or I CAN CHOOSE OUTPUT.

Most brand TV,s LET CHOOSE THIS PARAMETER (PCM, dolby digital). for digital output.... as this model does NOT HAVE analogue audio output (CINCH) if my amplifier DOES NOT ACCEPT mutichannel digital input... ¿how can I connect it???

¿A FIRMWARE UPGRADE CAN LET CHOOSE THIS PARAMETER???

xMen
11-01-2011, 09:00 PM
You can use output on Scart and output on headphones.
Regards.

tiomiguel
11-01-2011, 09:48 PM
OK but I think It is better using top class DAC,s included in my HARMAN KARDON HK990 than using analogue audio out from the SCART or, perhaps even worse, HEADPHONES OUTPUT.

Almos all TV,s let choose format in digital output... ¿ANY FIRMWARE in this TV allow this?

hansje
11-01-2011, 10:35 PM
via configuration menu,you can goto installation.
there you can select language
here you will aslso find preferred audio format.
advanced = digital dolby (if available)
standard = pcm

this is the place where you can select the preferred setting.

kind regards
hans

tiomiguel
11-01-2011, 11:03 PM
¿are you sure that this FIXES digital OUTPUT to PCM?????

I need to know it before connecting the TV.

Thank you

tiomiguel
11-02-2011, 10:11 PM
I have TV at home and... I am not able:

- select PCM format in SPDIF output (mi amp only wants PCM)

- Extract audio from SCART

- No audio out (cinch) provided

- I have to use headphones jack for extracting audio to my amp... very very bad...

- by the way, the menus are very confused...

I decided contact with PHILIPS, because this SPDIF fault affects to all series, and I think they can loose buyers... I think a firmware upgrade can solve this, for me and for all series... they said they are going to study the situation

I have a new 42PFL7606K/02 connected to a high-end audio system with a HK990 stereo amplifuer with digital inputs, but inputs accepts only PCM.
42PFL7606K/02 outputs dolby digital signal and I hear a horrible noise... the TV does NOT PROVIDE ANALOG sound output (RCA output). I have probed with abalog audio output inthe SCART bur no sound...
Other TV,s I had allowed to select PCM for SPDIF output... please, this is a firmware question. I can not understand why this TV does not allow choose PCM in the output, because thera are many devices incmpatible with multicanal digital outputs...if TV does not have analog outputs, and the output in the SCART is not avaible... I will have to RETURN THE TV.... please, give me a solution... this is a simple firmware question.
thank you.

let see what happens...

petasis
11-03-2011, 06:30 AM
I am not sure I understand your problem.

The SPDIF output is a pass-through one (in all TVs). It outputs what it is fed, and supported by TV.

Then, your SPDIF equipment will not break if you give it something it will not understand (like DD). Actually, SPDIF will give you two formats: PCM and DD.
If you don't want DD, just configure the source to not give DD to the TV.

If you want analog, there is the headphones output. What is wrong with that?

tiomiguel
11-03-2011, 07:20 AM
The SPDIF output is a pass-through one (in all TVs). It outputs what it is fed, and supported by TV. THIS IS NOT TRUE. All brands let choose output format (like any DVD player . BLU RAY etc.) every system with digital output lets choose digital format

All TV from SAMSUNG, LG etc let choose PCM or DD in digital outputs... if PHILIPS does not, people like me will not buy this, and will go to other brands.

SPDIF can not be pass-through because many amps do not accept DD, and this TV DOES NOT provide analog audio OUTPUT...

Now this world is very competitive. LCD panels are made by few brands... differences are now in implementation software...
if LG makes LCD panel, PHILIPS uses LG panel, and if software implementation is worse than LG... LG LETS choose between PCM and DD

Better software implementation and panel made by them ¿why choose PHILIPS? Perhaps because they are going to solve this problem inmediatly... they have this problem in ALL MODELS...

HEADPHONE output is NOT the way to extract sound from the TV for a high-end audio system.

tiomiguel
11-05-2011, 08:48 AM
I have contacted with PHILIPS SERVICE for trying to solve PCM issue, but they said that CHOOSING BETWEEN PCM and DD for SPDIF output WILL NOT BE ENABLED... very good.

matthias
11-05-2011, 09:48 AM
I think, there is a misunderstanding between Philips support and you.
Maybe, if you talk to them again, give them a pointer to here ;-)

Philips DOES support PCM output, but it's hidden behind an unclear menu entry:

You set the default audio in the following way:
In "Configuration"
-> "Channel settings
-> "Languages"
-> "Preferred Audioformat" (at the bottom)
-> select "Standard" for PCM or "Extended" for DD/AC3/..

Please understand this has nothing to do with conversion - this just defines which audio stream will be selected by default.

You can also select it while you are watching the program. Select the channel, then say "Options" -> "Audio/Language"
Then you get a list of available sound sources. I bet, it's set to DD. Just select the audio channel above and it should work.

Please try to understand how it works:

The available sound formats are only determined by the source. Neither Samsung nor PHilips will do any re-coding.
Analog audio input (e.g. from analog channels) will be encoded and output through SPDIF as PCM
On your DVD/Blueray player (the "source"), you can only select DD or PCM if it is available on the DVD. If you have DVD with only PCM, the setting "DD" will not create a DD signal and vice versa.
This is the reason why there are usually two or more audio tracks on your DVD.
The same applies for the (digital) TV channels.
ONLY the player will select which one it will play (in case of broadcast, it's the TV), and it can ONLY select from the available formats


Concerning your noise: This sounds like a broken cable or bad connection. Make sure your fibre is not damaged.

PS: I'm using headphones output from the TV, and the sound is fine for me. The levels can be set in the configuration and it will not switch off the internal speakers.

Maybe Philips should just change the label from "Headphones" to "Headphones / Line out" ;-)

tiomiguel
11-05-2011, 01:50 PM
thank you, matthias, but other brands like SAMSUNG REENCODE signal to PCM. The setting you indicate, allows choose between stabdard (PCM) or DD (advanced)... if both are avaible from the source, I can choose PCM, but if ONLY DD is avaible, It goes to the output... in other brands, if you specify PCM format for the output, DD is reencoded to PCM and then goes to the SPDIF output... This is right in SAMSUMG, LG etc.

I know that AV systems accept DD and PCM signals, but, for example, my HARMAN KARDON HK990 only accepts PCM signal

Of course, I can extract audio signal from the headphones output, but quality is worse tahn tje SPDIF one (I have proved)

I am a littel sad with this TV: Menus are crazy, and this issue with PCM... this is a cery competitive world, and these thingas put the diffreences between brands... PHILPS is loosing market quote in favour of KOREAN BRANDS... they will know why...

matthias
11-05-2011, 07:14 PM
thank you, matthias, but other brands like SAMSUNG REENCODE signal to PCM.
Interesting. I read somewhere that people had similar problems with DTS on one of the (lower or medium end) Samsungs, and it was explained in that way. But maybe Samsung updated this in the meantime.

I guess it's a matter of how much we are willing to pay extra of that seemingly increadibly expensive DTS license... I agree it would be really cool not having to reencode anything, but I wouldn't want to pay 50€ extra just for that on a TV that costs 600€ without, because it's not important for me. But heh - I don't want to claim being the "broad market" ;-)

The menues are another story, but actually, after having the 5405 for almost a year, I got quite accustomed to these type of menues.. Don't know if that's good or bad, but I don't find it annoying any more ;-)

tiomiguel
11-05-2011, 08:41 PM
the worst of all is tthat hardware is capable to reencode and output PCM if desired of choosed, but it has to be IMPLEMENTED, and PHILIPS says this question is NOT IMPORTANT... I think everything is important....

Toengel
11-06-2011, 07:25 AM
Hi,

maybe the hardware is able to recode the audio stream, however, there are many more algorithms running during watching TV and I think then the power is limited.

But maybe you should use the internal speaker or the headphone out, because you won't have an other options...

Toengel@Alex

matthias
11-06-2011, 08:51 AM
for me, a stable system is more important than features, so before having DTS support, I'd like to have FW version where apps don't crash when under heavy use.

Still, you could try to find a standalone DD/DTS decoder box which also has stereo SPDIF output. Or if you're the DIY guy, find an embedded system with two digital in- and output ports and build it yourself ;-)

tiomiguel
11-06-2011, 09:57 AM
....find a standalone DD/DTS decoder box which also has stereo SPDIF output.

I AM UNABLE TO FIN THIS DECODER BOX... ¿do you know any? thank tyou

I have COAX and OPTICAL INPUTS in my HK990 AMP and HD990 CD PAYER, but only for PCM stereo signals.

matthias
11-06-2011, 10:13 AM
I haven't looked for ready-made solutions, but if you want to build something yourself, take for example a Netbook (or a Beagle Board with Linux if you want it smaller), hook up a USB Soundcard with S/PDIF input & output and do all the resampling and filtering you feel like.

ErikBreda
11-11-2011, 06:47 AM
Optical to digital audio converter, König KN-OPTRCA10
Will cost you about 60 euros
Input : Toslink or Coaxial
Output : analogue stereo signal
I used it to connect my Yamaha Hifi set to 37PFL9606, only issue was no sound when playing HD content (PS3 and Humax decoder), problem solved by changing setting in these devices from DD to PCM.

Other problem is that the minijack sometimes gives a signal and sometimes it does not.
Biggest problem (my 2nd device after changing the 1st one because of the same problem) is that there is nothing on my screen ... Ambilight works as it is supposed to, but the screen remains black!

Waiting for an answer, if not solved quickly ... I will change it for another brand (however I will not have Ambilight which will be too bad)

Jan Sedivy
12-29-2011, 09:28 PM
Hello friends, I recently bought 46PFL9705H/12 and I am now strongly disappointed with (mainly) two issues, which are NO PROBLEM on ANY other producer TV products... except fot Philips, unfortunately...
I would like to stress, that there is NO information related to these items in ANY of info materials published on Philips websites, leaflets, manuals etc . So the customer who decides to invest quite a lot of money to so called up-to-date technologies of Philips have no chance to find the problem, before he buys the product:-( Only, if he has time and will to read a lots of posts in user forums like this...But, I am sure that 95% does not read forums before buy.
1. In this thread mentioned problem with analog audio output... The sound from the TV speakers is not good enough for me, and I DO NOT want to use a multichannel receiver. I have a nice stereo amplifier, and I want to use it also for TV sound amplification. Problem is, that like other "classical" amplifiers, this one does not have digital input, only analog inputs. YOUR TV DOES NOT has ANY functional analog output !!! Even the SCARTS audio outputs are not functional (WHY THE HELL?!?). And yes, the original poster is right: it is A PURE NONSENSE to use headphones output as a source for analog input of a high quality stereo amplifier !!! Well, I may have found another solution - but a bit complicated: My CD player has diigtal input to its decoder...So, theoretically I can have my CD on, bring the TV´s digital audio output to the CD converter, and use its output to my stereo amplifier. But again - CD has optical input and the TV has coaxial output...so I need some conversion between these two.... Dear Philips engineers: why do you make things so difficult? Do you really want to loose your Market share? Any other TV (non-Philips) has this, let´s say - features... It is simply a must !!!!
2. Another problem - but only briefly- as this is for another thread: No subtitle support !!! What a SHAME on Philips!!!! Claiming a wide support for video formats from externel sources like USB and missing this basic feature? In 2010 ? If only I had this info before buyI SURELY would not have bought this machine... You can bet!!!

And that´s why I really can not nowadays recommend Philips TV to any of my friends.... Even Philips is still the only one having Ambilight.... but this is the only one feature that other makers cannot do ...BUT PHILIPS AS TECHNOLOGY LEADER (?) is really really losing its position and the recent poor results of its TV division say clearly.

I still hope that somebody in Philips will reconsider some decisions and if some problems can be solved by software updates, the WILL DO.

Thanks in advance

Jan

bufflig
02-05-2012, 10:01 AM
A small success story for those having a simple setup and problems w/ stereo sound: Yesterday I had a go at getting rid of the cable from the earphone jack on my 47PFL7606T to my ancient (but good) stereo amplifier. I got myself a S/PDIF to Analog converter from a local store, a cheap one that could not handle anything else than two channel stereo. After some testing I realized that about one third of the broadcast TV channels I had gave no sound to the amplifier and I started searching first in the menues and then in the forum. I found michaels informative post in this thread about the more or less hidden option to turn off "advanced" sound and it solved my problem. My bluray can be connected directly to the amplifier to get stereo sound, so whatever it sends to the TV and what's fed back through the digital sound link is not an issue, the problem was with the broadcast channels and thanks to the information in this thread, this is now solved. I realize that downsampling to PCM in software would be nice to have, but for more simple setups, the current functionality seems to be OK.
Thanks michael!!

Jan Sedivy
02-05-2012, 10:22 AM
Hello bufflig,

can you post which model of spdif-analog converter you used? Post the link to the product if possible.

Thanks, Jan

bufflig
02-05-2012, 11:42 AM
Hi Jan!

It's a cheap noname converter from a Swedish shop:
http://www.kjell.com/sortiment/ljud-bild/kablar-adaptrar/rca-audio/signalomvandlare/dac-ljudomvandlare-p68907#ProductDetailedInformation
- but I think this (for example) is the same one:
http://www.amazon.com/Digital-Optical-Analog-Converter-Adapter/dp/B005DIRI6I/ref=pd_cp_e_3

Please note that the quality was not astonishing... For example I had to replace the external power supply with another one as it had a really loud high pitched sound when operating (and bear in mind that it was inside a closed cupboard and i could still hear it from several meters :)). After replacing the power supply with a generic one, it worked nicely for stereo signals though...

Cheers!

anders
02-27-2012, 12:51 PM
I had problems with digital output through toslink to my dac converter, which produced no sound from digital tv channels, but worked on for example youtube. To get the tv-sound I had to enable "week sighted" direct translation from danish from the menu. Strange!