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View Full Version : The NP3900 and Android control points worse behavior than the NP2900



k1200rs
12-01-2011, 09:48 AM
I would like to reinforce here the message from jdthood.
The NP3900 just does not work with a remote control point on Android.
I used several and it always end up into the NP3900 hanging after few operations.
Even skipping to the next track causes the NP3900 to hang.
The worst is really that after you listen to few tracks you cannot return to the Internet Radios (empty list).

The funny or sad thing is that my NP2900' work fine with the Android control points....

k1200rs
12-01-2011, 09:52 AM
Although being negative does not help anyone, I cannot help myself questioning how Philips perform the Quality Assurance as such bugs are so big, so obvious and so repeatable. We made already that remark for the NP2xxx and here we are again. Too bad as the Hardware is excellent quality with a very good sound.

Philips - Gary
12-01-2011, 02:08 PM
Hi k1200rs,

I'm sorry to hear you're also experiencing the Android control point issues reported by jdthood.

We are currently looking into these issues and will post updates as things develop.

Kind regards,

Gary

jdthood
12-02-2011, 02:17 PM
I would like to reinforce here the message from jdthood.
The NP3900 just does not work with a remote control point on Android.
I used several and it always end up into the NP3900 hanging after few operations.
Even skipping to the next track causes the NP3900 to hang.
The worst is really that after you listen to few tracks you cannot return to the Internet Radios (empty list).

I mentioned inability to return to Internet Radio (which I called the '"This list is empty" problem')
in this other posting (http://www.supportforum.philips.com/en/showthread.php?3137-NP3900-also-has-firmware-problems&p=17120) and this one (http://www.supportforum.philips.com/en/showthread.php?3137-NP3900-also-has-firmware-problems&p=16874). So far there is no distinct thread dedicated to the Cannot-return-to-Internet-radio-because-you-get-a-This-list-is-empty-message, so let this be that thread.

The problem is completely repeatable and should have a high priority because there is no workaround and necessitates a reboot of the NP3900.

(Other problems I have reported in this forum often have workarounds. The NP3900 seems to crash less often, for example, if I do the following:
* wait a long time after issuing a command before issuing another command;
* pause playback before exiting the app.)

jdthood
12-03-2011, 07:09 PM
Today I got "This list is empty" trying to switch to Internet Radio from Library, even though I was using the remote control and had not used a DLNA control point at all.
--
Thomas

k1200rs
12-04-2011, 04:53 PM
I never noticed before because I always use my smartphone to decide which album to play but you are perfectly right, I just tried this now.
I used the standard remote control, select an album and then go back selecting a radio and get this 'empty list' message. Hence this is not related to the Android control point but to a NP3900 behaviour. The only way to select a radio is to reboot the NP.
I think I have seen a message from Gary/Philips stating they have not been able to reproduce this...I am ready to shot a movie and publish it on YouTube....

Philips - Gary
12-05-2011, 09:54 AM
I think I have seen a message from Gary/Philips stating they have not been able to reproduce this...I am ready to shot a movie and publish it on YouTube....

Hi k1200rs,

Regarding the empty list issue after closing the MyRemote application the MyRemote team are looking into this issue with a view to fixing it. In the mean time we have found that completely killing the apps should re-establish the connection without requiring a reboot of the NP3900.

As you have also reported issues using other, 3rd party apps could you provide the names of these apps so that we may look into these issues as well? It would also be useful if you could provide the software version and detail whether the issues reported happen all the time or if they are intermittent, in case of the latter please also provide any patterns you may have identified.

Kind regards,

Gary

k1200rs
12-05-2011, 10:39 AM
Gary,

The same issue happens when just using the Philips remote control.

Here is the sequence:
I switch on the NP (from a standby mode)
I select and play a track from my Twonky media server using the Philips standard remote control.
Whilst playing the track, I select Internet radios (using standard Philips remote control) and I get the <Empty List>
This happens 100% of the time from there.
The track plays fine and it goes from one to the other track, I just can no longer select Internet Radios.
I have multiple NP at home and it is without saying that my other NP' can play Internet Radios (hence I do not have any Internet connection issue).
The only way to repair this issue is then to do a proper reboot.

Again, I can shot a small movie and make it available on YouTube


My NP2900 and NP2500 are working fine and I can switch at any time from tracks to internet radios.

k1200rs
12-05-2011, 11:09 AM
Now testing this further, I see that it does not happen all the time.
I cannot explain (yet) the context that makes this <Empty List> appearing.
I have captured a small movie if you want, it will show exactly what I said.

Philips - Gary
12-05-2011, 11:14 AM
Hi k1200rs,

When investigating jdthood's report of empty track listings on the SimplyShare app we also checked MyRemote but were unable to reproduce the issue.

If you could do a little testing and see if you can find a pattern or context to help point us in the right direction I would be happy to reopen the case :).

Kind regards,

Gary

jdthood
12-05-2011, 08:36 PM
When investigating jdthood's report of empty track listings on the SimplyShare app we also checked MyRemote but were unable to reproduce the issue.

If you could do a little testing and see if you can find a pattern or context to help point us in the right direction I would be happy to reopen the case :).


Hi Gary,

Please note that this issue is distinct from the SimplyShare issue. The SimplyShare issue seemed to be incompatibility between SimplyShare and a NAS.

The malfunction being discussed here occurs even when no UPnP app is in use. See k1200rs's earlier post #8.
--
Thomas

jdthood
12-06-2011, 10:04 AM
This morning I tried to reproduce this (i.e., the Internet Radio "This list is empty" problem). I rebooted the NP3900, used the remote control to play music from the NAS, then switched back to Internet Radio. No problem. Repeat. Again, no problem.

Then I did the same, except that I used UPnPlay to select the song to play from the NAS. On trying to switch back to Internet Radio: "This list is empty".

I think it's at least safe to say that when a UPnP app is involved the "This list is empty" problem occurs more often.

I will continue testing.
--
Thomas

jdthood
12-07-2011, 07:59 PM
Over the past couple days I have been testing the player from time to time and I haven't seen "This list is empty" at all when using only the remote control and MyRemote.

On the other hand, if I use SimplyShare to select a track from the NAS then I immediately get "This list is empty" on returning to Internet Radio. Likewise with UPnPlay or BubbleUPnP.
--
Thomas

k1200rs
12-09-2011, 04:18 PM
Here is another example of the worse behaviour of the NP3900 vs. NP2900

I just bought a tablet...
I installed 2Player on it.
Works just fine with my multiple NP2900 and NP2500 I have at home but it does not work at all with my NP3900, I get "Invalid device response"....many times.
I don't get that message with the NP2900.

k1200rs
12-13-2011, 01:53 AM
I have only been using my Android tablet to control my NP2500, NP2900 and NP3900 with Twonky mobile running on the tablet (which I like more and more ).
I repeat what I said earlier, no problems with my NP2500 & 2900, many problems with the NP3900 with some of them requiring a full reboot of the device.
When I have time I will conduct a more structured testing and report the issues and context.

jdthood
12-13-2011, 07:30 PM
It is now more difficult to reproduce the problem being discussed in this thread (namely, the problem of getting "This list is empty" when switching from Media Library to Internet Radio) because it now difficult to connect to Media Library servers at all (http://www.supportforum.philips.com/en/showthread.php?3587-No-connection-to-mediaserver-after-update).

But the problem is still there and just as bad as before. Using UPnPlay I just played a song from my NAS to the NP3900. Pressing "Internet Radio" on the handheld remote brought up the "This list is empty" message. Evidently no attempt was made by the NP3900 to reconnect to the Internet.
--
Thomas Hood

k1200rs
12-20-2011, 09:47 AM
Thomas,

During the end of the year break, I will conduct comprehensive and documented testing of the NP3900 same as you did. I often face the Radio <empty list> after I control the device through a Android application (when you let it go by itself in standby and later you wake-up the device) and I never faced that with the older NP2500 or NP2900.

jdthood
12-22-2011, 09:23 PM
Initial tests of UPnP control points on the NP3900 with firmware V G5.59S give me the impression that the behavior is different.

On one hand the "This list is empty" problem seems to occur less often... provided one completely closes the UPnP control point app before attempting to select Internet Radio with the handheld remote.

Furthermore, it seems to me that the NP3900 hangs less often when controlled with a UPnP control point.

On the other hand the NP3900 still behaves rather erratically when controlled with a UPnP control point. I'll do some testing and report back with more details.

k1200rs
12-23-2011, 08:20 AM
EMPTY LIST

I can systematically get a <radio empty list> with the following sequence:

1 To start from a clean situation I do a cold / full reboot of the NP
2 I check I have all my favorite stations
3 I start Twonky mobile
4 I play a track pushed by Twonky mobile
5 I quit Twonky mobile whilst it is playing the track
6 I select favorite or preset radios on the NP and get the infamous empty list
7 The only way out is to again hard reboot, the NP3900



Needless to say that with a NP2900 it works fine....

k1200rs
12-23-2011, 08:52 AM
Well, it is not systematic, sometimes it happens and sometimes not. I also noticed that when moving from one track to another, using Twonky mobile and then selecting the radios, I face more often the empty list problem.
Although I do not understand the context, it is not that difficult to get an empty list issue when using a contact point hence I do not understand Philips denial or silence about it. I repeat I don't have such problem with the NP2900. I can put a short movie on Youtube if that helps Philips.


I WISH PHILIPS A MUCH BETTER QUALITY ASSURANCE FOR 2012.

jdthood
12-23-2011, 09:01 AM
I WISH PHILIPS A MUCH BETTER QUALITY ASSURANCE FOR 2012.

That's better than what they are getting, namely layoffs and no Christmas bonus.

k1200rs
12-23-2011, 09:15 AM
Well, if they don't fix their quality and time to market issues, they will disappear. I believe Philips like many other companies is/has offshored critical processes, lost their soul, pride and ownership with a consequence on revenues which requires another cycle of cost cutting and offshoring with same consequences. A deadly vicious circle management does not want to admit in most companies, it is indeed easier to cut cost through offshoring than fixing root causes.

jdthood
12-23-2011, 10:08 AM
Well, if they don't fix their quality and time to market issues, they will disappear. I believe Philips like many other companies is/has offshored critical processes, lost their soul, pride and ownership with a consequence on revenues which requires another cycle of cost cutting and offshoring with same consequences. A deadly vicious circle management does not want to admit in most companies, it is indeed easier to cut cost through offshoring than fixing root causes.

Well, soul is one thing; offshoring another. Apple has soul, and excellent quality control, even though its products are assembled in China.

With its "Sense and Simplicity" slogan Philips shows that it knows where in the market it needs to win. But it hasn't shown recently that it knows how to win in that part of the market.

Philips, you win by delivering on your "Sense and Simplicity" promise. Your products should work well. What follows is that customers come to believe in that promise. Then they buy Philips products at a nice premium.

The alternative is indeed to lose and disappear.

Philips is planning to sell its television division. Perhaps Philips has lost its faith in its ability to win in the consumer electronics sector as a whole. If so then we can expect the whole Consumer Livestyle division to be disposed of soon.

k1200rs
12-23-2011, 05:55 PM
Good point, agree.

Now, before disappearing, could be great if Mr Philips addresses the <empty list> issue impacting the NP3900.