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View Full Version : USB Recording in the UK? No IP-EPG!



nsur
06-12-2012, 11:46 PM
One of the reasons I bought the 37PFL7666T is that it was advertised (on philips.co.uk) as being able to record programs to external USB devices. However, I now understand that this works only with the IP-EPG, for reasons that are very unclear indeed, as every other PVR on the market is fine with the Freeview EPG. It would have been nice if this had been mentioned in the advertising.

Unfortunately, the TV does not appear to be able to connect to the IP-EPG: even though I have selected "Programme Guide from Network", I still get the normal DVD-T (Freeview) EPG, and I do not get a record button of any type. How do I get onto the IP-EPG? Some posts here in the forum have suggested that this function is simply not available in the UK -- I this true?

I have bought an external HDD specifically for this function. It has formatted fine, the TV is connected to the network and NetTV works fine (well, as fine as it ever does given its clumsy and slow interface), timeshift works (but is of no interest to me), but as there is no IP-EPG, there is no USB recording.

What to do?

Thanks!

Martin

PS: Fine TV -- pity about the user interface.

Toengel
06-13-2012, 06:32 AM
Hi,

try to setup your TV to ireland (see IP-EPG availability: http://www.supportforum.philips.com/en/showthread.php?3616-IP-EPG-now-active-for-Duch-cable-users!)

Toengel@Alex

Philips - Marco
06-13-2012, 10:51 AM
Hi,

I can confirm that unfortunately the IP-EPG feature is not available for the United Kingdom.
The unique nature of the EPG system in the United Kingdom means that it is not possible to simultaneously broadcast an EPG via both broadcast signal and the internet.
Currently the only feature that is available for UK sets is the ability to pause Live TV.

Regards,
Marco

nsur
06-13-2012, 10:52 AM
Thanks, Toengel -- I'll try that. I'm not sure what unintended consequences changing the country setting will have, in particular whether this will deactivate BBC iPlayer (which is a core part of the TV's functionality) and whether all my channels will be recognised. Should be easy enough to change back if necessary.

Probably needless to say, as already posted many times here in the support forum, but Philips have a serious problem with their software development and their advertising. They are breaching UK law by advertising features that are not available to UK customers, in this instance USB recording. Their customer retention rate is likely to suffer badly from the poor implementation of the EPG and PVR features -- they are well behind their competitors on these (indeed well behind where their competitors were five years ago: my 2006 Panasonic TV and 2006 Sony PVR both have a MUCH better EPG delivered through DVB-T and the PVR has no problem scheduling recordings through the DVB-T EPG). This is all a pity as there is so much that Philips got right with the hardware.

Martin

nsur
06-13-2012, 11:25 AM
Thanks, Marco -- we posted simultaneously. The obvious solution to that particular problem is of course to do the same as all your competitors and use the (excellent!) EPG data available through the Freeview DVB-T system to schedule USB recordings.

I was serious when I said that Philips are in breach of UK law, and I will report this to the Advertising Standards Authority. The description of the 37PFL7666T on philips.co.uk reads:

"Find, schedule, record and pause TV -- Record live digital TV on a USB connected to your Philips TV or pause content whenever you want to take a break and continue watching whenever you want. Use the Electronic Programme Guide to find your favourite programmes and easily schedule your preferred recordings. Now you can programme your TV viewing around your life."

While there is a footnote saying "country restrictions may apply", any reasonable customer (which is the ASA criteria) will expect the feature to be available in the UK given that the above quote appears on the Philips UK (!) web site.

The most serious part of this is that your customers cannot discover that there is no HDD recording facility until AFTER buying an external hard drive -- the TV itself give no indication whatsoever of which EPG it is using. My TV is set to "Programme guide from network", and this gives no error message or dialogue, you just get an EPG which one has to assume is the IP-EPG (this is what was selected, after all). The help file says that a recording button will appear in the EPG as soon as a USB hard disk is connected and formatted. The first indication that anything is amiss is that this does not happen and the EPG is unchanged even with a formatted hard drive connected.

It is only after then checking the support forum posts here (NB: NOT the Philips FAQ or help files!) that it became clear to me that the EPG I was seeing was actually the DVB-T EPG and not the IP-EPG: the TV was set to receive the EPG from the network and simply does not do this without displaying any message saying so.

Not good.

Martin

DunxUK
06-14-2012, 05:19 PM
I have exactly the same problem and also bought a 60 portable hdd only to find that I can only use it to pause television (which it does badly) and the cable gets in the way of the ambilight. I also know deep down that the Philips developers have no intention whatsoever of (a) allowing recordings to be set from the broadcast EPG or even manually, and (b) will never incorporate freeview into their Net EPG. It is similarly inept that there is no way to 'hide' channels you don't want from the dreadful EPG in the first place.

I decided to add a review to the John Lewis website adding these warnings to anyone considering buying a Philips because - as you rightly point out - they do not admit that these features will not work on Freeview. Now I discover that John Lewis only accepts reviews that are in no way critical as poor reviews affect their sales.

I still love the telly but am now forking out for a Panasonic DTT recorder, thankfully Panasonic have discovered a mysterious way to set recordings from the broadcast EPG using the dangerous knowledge of start time, end time and channel number.

nsur
06-14-2012, 05:55 PM
I decided to add a review to the John Lewis website adding these warnings to anyone considering buying a Philips because - as you rightly point out - they do not admit that these features will not work on Freeview. Now I discover that John Lewis only accepts reviews that are in no way critical as poor reviews affect their sales.



As I also bought my TV from John Lewis, I will contact their customer service -- as far as I can see, John Lewis are the only significant distributor for Philips TVs in the UK, so presumably they have somewhat more clout with Philips than we have. Without them, there simply will not be any more Philips TVs in the UK (one way of solving the compatibility problem, I guess). In any case, John Lewis need to know that they are also in breach of UK consumer law by repeating the Philips marketing claims on their own web site.

Otherwise, as I have discovered yesterday, making an official complaint to the Advertising Standards Agency is a quite straightforward process.

DunxUK
06-14-2012, 06:41 PM
Good idea, I think I'll try that too. If Philips' own marketing department starts asking the questions we are asking maybe something will happen.

DunxUK
06-14-2012, 09:54 PM
Hi,

try to setup your TV to ireland (see IP-EPG availability: http://www.supportforum.philips.com/en/showthread.php?3616-IP-EPG-now-active-for-Duch-cable-users!)

Toengel@Alex

I can clarify to all that that THIS DOESN'T WORK. None of the channels are identified and the EPG, albeit the NET EPG, shows all as "Unidentified Channel" and the only options to set them to are Irish channels.

DunxUK
06-29-2012, 03:56 PM
Good news, the Advertising Standards Authority have written back and have opened a case against Philips on this issue.

fatbloke
07-19-2012, 09:19 PM
Another customer here who bought an external HDD to record programmes only to find this feature is not actually present on the 42PDL7906T/12. I too will be in touch with the ASA. I'll also be interested to see what Philips' response is, just wrote to them.

davideo0
07-31-2012, 11:17 PM
Hi,

I can confirm that unfortunately the IP-EPG feature is not available for the United Kingdom.
The unique nature of the EPG system in the United Kingdom means that it is not possible to simultaneously broadcast an EPG via both broadcast signal and the internet.
Currently the only feature that is available for UK sets is the ability to pause Live TV.

Regards,
Marco

Whilst I am very pleased with the picture of this model, I was very disappointed with the sound output and quality. So, I forked out another 200 for a cheap sound bar to boost the output. It is still not as good as my previous old fashioned Sony TV but I thought I could live with it.

I then bought a 320GB HDD to record programs only to find, like all the other complainants, that it doesn't work.

I feel that I have been misled by the advertisements, and had I known how much the total price would be I would have bought another brand where these facilities are provided.
Having seen the above comment by Marco on behalf of Philips there seems to be a complete lack of concern for customers genuine complaints, and no indication that Philips have any intention of putting things right.

I shall certainly never buy another piece of Philips electronics.

davideo0

Philips - Benedickte
08-01-2012, 09:53 AM
I feel that I have been misled by the advertisements, and had I known how much the total price would be I would have bought another brand where these facilities are provided.
Having seen the above comment by Marco on behalf of Philips there seems to be a complete lack of concern for customers genuine complaints, and no indication that Philips have any intention of putting things right.


davideo0

Hi Davideo0.

When it comes to this advertisments, where did you get advertised that our TV's can do recording in UK on your set?

Best Regards
Benedickte

davideo0
08-01-2012, 11:16 AM
On Philips uk website

http://www.philips.co.uk/c/televisions/4000-series-107-cm-42-inch-full-hd-1080p-dvb-t2-c-42pfl4007t_12/prd/;jsessionid=53BB45BF3FC20DB4B60A0BE59D123443.app10 1-drp3
Wherein it states:

"Find, schedule, record* and pause TV
Record live digital TV on a USB connected to your Philips TV or pause content whenever you want to take a break and continue watching whenever you want. Use the Electronic Programme Guide to find your favourite programmes and easily schedule your preferred recordings. Now you can programme your TV viewing around your life."

That to me, and any one else, is quite clear.
The advertisement is totally misleading.

Philips - Benedickte
08-01-2012, 02:28 PM
On Philips uk website

http://www.philips.co.uk/c/televisions/4000-series-107-cm-42-inch-full-hd-1080p-dvb-t2-c-42pfl4007t_12/prd/;jsessionid=53BB45BF3FC20DB4B60A0BE59D123443.app10 1-drp3
Wherein it states:

"Find, schedule, record* and pause TV
Record live digital TV on a USB connected to your Philips TV or pause content whenever you want to take a break and continue watching whenever you want. Use the Electronic Programme Guide to find your favourite programmes and easily schedule your preferred recordings. Now you can programme your TV viewing around your life."

That to me, and any one else, is quite clear.
The advertisement is totally misleading.

Hi Davideo0

I'm sorry you find this missleading, but please also see the *, where you can see further down it's stated:
* USB recording is only possible for digital channels covered by the TV IP bases Electronic Programme Guide (country and channel restrictions may apply); recordings may be limited by broadcast copy protection (CI+). An Internet connection is required.

As you live in the UK, you are not using a CI+ module but a digital set-top box. This also mean that you are not able to do the recording , only pause live TV.

Best Regards
Benedickte

davideo0
08-01-2012, 03:47 PM
Hi Davideo0

I'm sorry you find this missleading, but please also see the *, where you can see further down it's stated:
* USB recording is only possible for digital channels covered by the TV IP bases Electronic Programme Guide (country and channel restrictions may apply); recordings may be limited by broadcast copy protection (CI+). An Internet connection is required.


As you live in the UK, you are not using a CI+ module but a digital set-top box. This also mean that you are not able to do the recording , only pause live TV.

Best Regards
Benedickte

You are telling me something I know NOW after having purchased the set and additions.
The point I am making is that it is not at all clear that it applies to UK.
Philips seem to be assuming that the customer is going to carry our searches to find whether it applies to his particular location.

Philips could have given a list of countries to which that paragraph does not apply in the advert.
In which case the customer could make an easy decision. In my case a negative one!

I had to come to this forum before it was made clear. That is FAR TOO LATE!
The public I maintain are misled by that advertisement in a big way.

fatbloke
08-01-2012, 07:46 PM
Not impressed with Philips reaction at all, and like others I will not buy their kit again - not least because of their feeble reaction when it is pointed out that they do not make the spec of the kit clear. In the user manual it simply says "Note: In some countries, recording is not
supported." I don't think that is adequate at all, when there are repeated mentions of the ability to record to usb. Sorry Philips, you disappointed me by not clearly stating what works and what doesn't, and then your response on this forum is really pretty insulting. Unhappy customers don't tend to return, and don't make positive recommendations I am afraid.

guilbo
08-08-2012, 11:43 AM
Let me tell you a story.

When I first set up my 7666 it defaulted to a Finland setup with Finnish web apps and a Finnish EPG. Still don't know why, but it turned out to be serendipitous. I switched the apps to UK to find iPlayer, no problem. However with the Finnish channel search this has enabled the network EPG which is mostly correct and therefore can be used to make recordings. Although it's a Finnish setting the data which have been supplied are English, so there's no problem there.

This is not a perfect solution, however, as there are some drawbacks: Times are all over the place, but if you trust the EPG, don't use your telly as a clock and don't mind subtracting 2 that doesn't really matter. The major problem is that it disables the red button functionality so you can forget digital teletext, although the BBC alternate streams can easily be accessed by changing to the appropriate channel. They're not well covered by the EPG, however, although they are present.

It is the channel search which sets all this up, so you don't have to do a complete reset. I've had a play and tried a few different countries, but have found that Finland works best. Ireland didn't work well at all. This does not affect iPlayer as web apps have a separate nationality setting.

None of this faffing about should be necessary, however.

I agree that Philips and associated vendors should not leave it up to potential buyers psychic abilities. If something is advertised on the .uk website it is a reasonable assumption that the information therein should apply specifically to the UK and if it's a UK vendor there should be absolutely no deviation.

PS. It's also worth having a play with the web apps for other countries if only to see just how short-changed UK buyers of this TV are. Philips really should put some work in there.

DunxUK
09-01-2012, 02:42 PM
Update: The Advertising Standards Authority have issued a draft recommendation that Philips were in breach of Code (Edition 12) rules 3,1 and 3.3 (misleading advertising), 3.9 (qualification) and 3.11 (exaggeration) and must withdraw these claims from the advert. In addition, Philips suggested resolution of an asterisk which lead the reader to a footnote saying "not in the UK" was also unacceptable as the main target of the advert was likely to be UK readers.

So pathetically crippled firmware and illegal advertising. Thanks Philips.

petasis
09-12-2012, 03:54 AM
Well, Philips really has a problem with misleading information. In 2010 I bought my 9705, whose EPG (both DVB-T & IP-EPG) never worked for Greece. They had this asterisk that it many not work on all countries, but of course no list was available on which countries it does work, and whether it worked for Greece or not.

And if due to lack of information, somebody follows comon sense ("all brands have this feature, philips will also have it"), you end up spending your money on a feature lacking product.

And after two years of waiting for support, and the "life period" of the product ended, nothing was actually fixed. The product remains with sound drops and no EPG, despite the fact that at least EPG is a small firmware fix, and they know the fix, because 2011 models have DVB-T EPG.

But I will know better in afew months that I will replace the 9705 with a model that can do EPG and play movies from HDMI without sound-drops...

DunxUK
10-10-2012, 12:06 AM
Well the Advertising Standards Authority have now ruled on this issue.

http://www.asa.org.uk/Rulings/Adjudications/2012/10/Philips-Electronics-UK-Ltd/SHP_ADJ_199641.aspx

Accordingly:

The ad breached Code (Edition 12) rules 3.1 and 3.3 (Misleading advertising), 3.9 (Qualification) and 3.11 (Exaggeration).

The ad must not appear again in its current form. We told Philips not to claim that the product's "record" function was generally available as a feature when it could not be used with UK settings.


It's a sad state of affairs when a company's customers need to do this. Philips, if you wish to talk about what you have done the floor is yours.

DougsTV
10-13-2012, 02:39 PM
I've just bought one from Richer Sounds - so they are selling them as well - I also have issues mainly that the only on demand system that works is the BBC iPLayer - would have expected them all the others (4oD, etc.) to work via the internet App but alas not!

rayk2099
01-09-2013, 09:05 AM
Hi all. Just wanted to thank you for diagnosing the problem and reporting it to the ASA. Based on that I was able to get a refund from Richer Sounds for my 47PFL4007T with no hassles. They said no one across the company was aware of the issue, and they have changed the in-store display AND the feature list on their website.

As the recording didn't work, the normal EPG was slow and terrible AND the TV was very unresponsive I decided to take the whole thing back and replace it with a Sony. The difference is astounding (but it really shouldn't be).

Thanks again for doing the legwork. Just wish I'd seen this thread before I bought the TV!