BDP 7700 AVCHD Disk Problem

[Peter.Sil]

Since about 10 days I own a Philips BDP 7700 Blu Ray player and I have experienced the following problem:

I have a great number of HDTV recordings (mostly documentary films from arte HD) that I cut with TSDoctor that I converted into AVCHD disks using tsMuxerGUI and burned to DVD disk using ImgBurn. With my previous Blu-Ray Players (from other manufacturers than Philips) I could play these disks without problems.

On the Philips BDP 7700 the majority of these recordings does not work. When playing the disks the video is stuttering in a way that is not bearable. Strange enough, the same recordings work without problems if they are converted into .mkv format and burned on DVD blank disk, although the video properties of the .mt2s file on the AVCHD disk and the .mkv file are identical.

Here are the properties of the .m2ts file that does not work (extracted using Mediainfo):

General
ID : 1 (0x1)
Complete name : E:\BDMV\STREAM\00000.m2ts
Format : BDAV
Format/Info : Blu-ray Video
File size : 3.64 GiB
Duration : 43mn 13s
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 12.1 Mbps
Maximum Overall bit rate : 35.5 Mbps

Video
ID : 4113 (0x1011)
Menu ID : 1 (0x1)
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : High@L3.2
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames : 4 frames
Format settings, GOP : M=3, N=16
Codec ID : 27
Duration : 43mn 13s
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 10.9 Mbps
Maximum bit rate : 40.0 Mbps
Width : 1 280 pixels
Height : 720 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate : 50.000 fps
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.236
Stream size : 3.28 GiB (90%)

And here is the data of the .mkv file that works without errors:

General
Unique ID : 198598183654453309730758161573473134963 (0x95689E6EED296083A3134256847FA973)
Complete name : H:\mkv\Die schönsten Küsten Frankreichs (07).mkv
Format : Matroska
Format version : Version 2
File size : 3.46 GiB
Duration : 43mn 13s
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 11.4 Mbps
Encoded date : UTC 2012-09-24 07:17:12
Writing application : mkvmerge v5.8.0 ('No Sleep / Pillow') built on Sep 2 2012 15:37:04
Writing library : libebml v1.2.3 + libmatroska v1.3.0

Video
ID : 1
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : High@L3.2
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames : 4 frames
Format settings, GOP : M=3, N=16
Codec ID : V_MPEG4/ISO/AVC
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 10.5 Mbps
Maximum bit rate : 40.0 Mbps
Width : 1 280 pixels
Height : 720 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate mode : Variable
Original frame rate : 50.000 fps
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Default : Yes
Forced : No

I would really appreciate to receive an answer as soon as possible as I need to decide whether to keep the player or to return it.

Best regards,

Peter.Sil

[Peter.Sil]

Maybe some of you are interested to know that I got an answer to this question in the German forum, in which the responder pointed out that the maximum bit rate of the m2ts file was 40.0 Mbs, which - according to him - was too much for the player.

I responded that

1. the actual bit rate never goes beyond 20.0 Mbs

2. the maximum bit rate of the .mkv file is also 40.0 Mbs

3. I have several files recorded from ZDF HD where the maximum bit rate is 12.0 Mbs and the files are not playable as .m2ts (AVCHD disk) either, but the player has no problem to display them properly as .mkv files.

I sent my response in the German forum more than one week ago, but I have not yet received an answer (actually I do not expect to ever get an answer and that I would have to live with a player that does not perform as promised).

Best regards,

Peter.Sil

[Oscar]

Looking at your file Ii have doubts that it works. You have to remux it. Format profile high@3.2 might not be supported better change to high@4.0 or 4.1

[Peter.Sil]

Oscar, thank you for your input although it is not really helpful to me . I assume that you looked up my message in the german forum. If you also look at my response there you can see that I also have given an example of a disk where the profile is Main@4.0 that does not work eiither.

Best regards,

Peter.Sil

[Peter.Sil]

Dear Philips support staff,

I am disappointed about the responses I got in both this and the German forum. I expected that an expert from the Philips support team would ask me to provide her/him with samples of the files that do not work, which (s)he could carefully analyse in order to find the problem's cause and rectify it. What I got are responses like "might not work", "might be a problem", "could be related to", etc. but no well-grounded statements. I get the impression that you actually have no idea what the problem is and how it could be solved.

This might be related to the separation of the tasks of designing, producing its parts, assembling the player and creating the software in different countries or continents that the support staff is unable to give proper support. On the other hand the player is not really a low-cost player. For the price one can expect good quality, you must have saved a lot by putting the player into this ugly plastic case, there must be some money left over for providing quality support.

On Amazon - where I bought the player - and on the Philips web site the player was advertised as a device that could play practically all video formats including AVCHD disks. All my AVCHD disks that have problems are from HDTV recording of stations that broadcast in 720p 50Hz. According to Philips-Tino of the German forum this frame rate might be too high.

However, 720p 50Hz is within the specification for AVCHD disks. Wikipedia writes about this "Since the very beginning the AVCHD specification had supported 720-line progressive recording mode at frame rates of 24 and 60 frames/s for 60 Hz models and 50 frames/s for 50 Hz models."

If Philips states that the player can play AVCHD disks this is simply no true as it cannot play disks that are created in compliance with the defined AVCHD standard.

I have now two options:

- Keep the player and convert the video files on about 100 AVCHD disks into MKV format and burn them again on blank DVD disks.
- Return the player and purchase a model from a different vendor that also plays my AVCHD disks.

I have not yet decided what I will do. Please do your best to convince me that option 1 is the better one for me.

Best regards,

Peter.Sil

[Oscar]

Hi,

Because main 4.0 is not supported and High 4 yes is..

BTW did not look int the German Forum cause my German is quite how to say bad:o