Mighty Philips Brainboxes,
would You ever fix that buggy PNM function?
It would be very appreciated, because I payed for it...
Thank You very, very much in advance.
I fully agree with most of people that PNM is not working fine.
My biggest concern is really the bad dynamic backlight, which is way to agressive.
I wanted to use this feature to hide the clouding nightmare, but now I decided to disable DB.
I also noticed that smart tv is not working ok, no icons to see.
The tv is not connected to the network, after restart (power down set) it works fine.
Network is wired, so no wireless problems.
Became member of netflix a week ago, so I really don't know if this also occurred at previous FW.
My FW is the latest one, 173.50.
Hope the DB will be fixed and of course the other bugs as well.
Can anyone see any difference if Clear LCD is On or Off? I am sure I could see a difference on previous firmwares. but now I cannot see any difference at all. I tried with football or F1 and panning shots, and I am not seeing any improvement with Clear LCD switched on! I have tried with PNM off or minimal as well as I think Clear LCD only works now if PNM is on.
Can anyone else try this and see if it does anything for them or advise what sort of scene I can test it with?
FW is 173.50 on a 46PFL8008
I can say it is the same problem here with the PNM its flickering and just look very bad im sorry to tell.
It`s seems not have enough power to keep up or something like that it was much better when i come
home after i bying the tv at christmas but now it looks very bad.
So can i Downgrade whith an erlier software or can you fix it please .
Sorry for the english :(
Well if Clear LCD isn't working that would cause additional flickering with PNM.
Can someone else verify if Clear LCD is working for them in .50? I have now tried all sorts of motion test Blu-rays and I am convinced it does absolutely nothing.....
Found the bug that was confusing me!!
If PNM is set to Minimum, Clear LCD is forced to an "on" setting no matter what it is actually set to in the menus. If PNM is set to medium or higher setting then the Clear LCD switch works correctly. What a strange bug! It makes me wonder whether PNM is correctly functioning as "minimum" as well!
Ina, please get this looked into. At least the Clear LCD switch should work with PNM set to minimum, but I am a bit suspicious that PNM is too aggressive at the minimum setting and is not really "minimum" at all!
My Phillips 46PFL8008S/12 cant play viaplay anymore since I updated to the latest software. The "app" starts but when I chose witch movie to play the screen turns black with a "hour glas" I the middle of the screen, that's fore all movies..?
Watching Netflix, switch to TV (analog), back to smart tv to enter Netflix again resulted in black screen.
Power down was not possible anymore, had to remove power cord.
Seems like a bug to me!!!!
Originally Posted by johaninho
I can confirm it happened to me, too; while waiting for a game to download on PS3:
- watched youtube on my 55PFL8008S/12 (several clips)
- switched back to Smart TV interface, then played some games (can't remember right now which, there is one in the apps list)
- tried to look on some webpages but I quit because the browser is obviously a nightmare
- decided to open the (Network) Media Player and I tried to play a movie....
...eventually it crashed with a completely black screen
to recover from this I had to pull the power cord
Originally Posted by johaninho
Summary of bugs so far that I found:-
1) PWM set to minimum forces Clear LCD to on even if Clear LCD is set to off in menus. Also suspicious that PWM minimum is not actually minimum at all
2) If HDMI connection from a device outputting Dolby Digital, sound and picture are out of sync on TV
3) If HDMI connection from a device outputting stereo or DD, the optical output of the TV is delayed and therefore not correctable
4) You cannot use both Social TV and Cloud explorer apps with .50 as if you set Social TV, then you just get a black screen with Cloud Explorer. If you reset the internet settings, you can then set Cloud Explorer, but then Social TV just hangs and you get a spinning circle in the centre of the screen forever
5) In the UK, only broadcast EPG is supported. If you press the i button while watching a TV programme, it says to press yellow for "more info". But there is no more info...it tries to go to Gracenote EPG which of course fails and gives blank screen.
6) BBC iPlayer is broken. You can browse the TV programmes, but you cannot play any (Results in timeout error)
7) Light sensor doesn't respond correctly when picture mode is set to Personal. This can easily be seen by changing to natural in a dim room and enabling and then disabling the light sensor...the contrast changes as expected. Switch to personal, and there is no change whatsoever by enabling and disabling the light sensor
8) When sound input via HDMI is stereo, but sound output setting in the TV sound menus is set to multi-channel, the volume of the sound output is very reduced.
MY TOP 5 MOST HATED PHILIPS BUGS!
Crashes! From time to time, TV just crashes and freezes totally for no reason. Just minding my own business, watching TV and suddenly it goes down. You have to unplug the power cord for couple minutes before continuing. This is definetly the most awkward issue.
Even though it has gotten some improvements with the updates. The general usability and responsiviness of the menus / smart TV etc. is the worst (I'm not joking) I've ever seen on a consumer product from a major electronic brand.
Menus still do not respond well, and even if they respond okayish now days, the choppy / laggy animation effects that the menu objects have, make the illusion of everything moving really slowly and jerky.
Many settings are buried ridiciously deep in the menus, making the general usability a nightmare with this TV.
Many users have reported this all, since the launch of 2012 models - yet Philips haven't still made their move for the better.
Audio-lag when source is outputting multichannel signal. Audio is not in sync with the picture. Several times reported here - originally over months ago, still no fix.
Dynamic backlight setting - on standard. Used to work correctly on earlier firmwares making very subtle changes to backlight brightness, based on the content displayed on the screen.
It was a good and effective way to get rid of light bleeds, mura effects or flashlightning -effects.
On recent firmwares it changed and now even the standard setting, creates too dramatic backlight and contrast changes to the image. Settings fluctuate constantly and go to the end of spectrums making it very annoying to watch. Reported since last year, by numerous people. Not fixed yet.
Perfect Natural Motion makes the movement really smooth for most of the time - but some times it fails and the errors hit in, which include: blocky artifacts, motion blur or general choppines of movement. These have always been there to some extent, but the with the most recent firmwares, it's gotten more and more common that these erros start to pop out.
The problem is that when a system like this fails, and even a minor error or choppy movement is introduced to a very smoothly moving image, it's much more distracting than just disabling the effect altogheter.
The key thing here is that the movement speed has to be constant for your eye to get used to it - no matter if it's ultra-smooth or a little bit choppy. Your brain will adapt to it, as long as it stays constant. If it's not constant, your viewing pleasure is sure to be distracted.
I also suggest that Philips engineers re-check PNM if the settings; Minimum, Medium and Maximum really make any difference. I Also encourage you to check whether Clear LCD settings makes any difference to image. (I have tried to examine these multiple times, without seeing any visible difference.
Can't believe the amount of frustration buying this over 2000€ product has caused me. It's ridicilous and not in a good way. It's a shame, cause there still are things to like about the product too. picture Quality when calibrated, Ambilight and design for example.
I really hope that Philips will make it right for the customers somehow. Even if it just by making a new software that fixes these things.
I have proved Clear LCD works but only if PNM is enabled. There is a bug as I mentioned where if PNM is set to minimum, Clear LCD is forced on...so changing this setting in the menu makes no difference and may make you think Clear LCD is not working.
To see Clear LCD in action, please have a look at this thread
You will find links to two downloadable files that you can put on a USB stick. While playing these files, you can set PNM to medium, and then switch Clear LCD on and off and you will see a dramatic improvement in movement resolution.
Clear LCD makes less of an improvement with this TV than some other models as the native refresh is already 200Hz for this panel. It's motion resolution is not bad to start with!
I do agree with you that I believe the PNM settings are not correctly working and that minimum is not minimum in fact.
BTW In the user guide description of Clear LCD it says it improves black level and off-axis viewing. I don't see any changes in this aspect or understand why it would have any affect on this! So if you have been looking for these benefits, then Clear LCD isn't working for this! Is it really meant to be?
I won't say that ;)
Originally Posted by Louikes
Subtitles have never been an issue with PNM from my point of view, as they are not in motion.
You could only see some kind of "artifacts" around them (or some blurred areas) which can be generated either by the PNM itself, either by the video compression if subtitles are embedded in the picture.
But in any case, subtitles have always been readable with PNM ON for me whatever their size is.
I was speaking about horizontal scrolling text, like in ads (where you have the "general conditions" and so on) or in news channels.
From a more global point of view regarding how PNM "handles" picture motion: the smallest the "object" in motion is, the hardest PNM will smooth its movements without any "object" distorsion.
Not sure how clear my explanations are as I am not an expert nor a native English speaker :)
The 8008's panel native refresh rate is 100Hz, Clear LCD adds an extra backlight flicker to reach the "200Hz" refresh rate.
Originally Posted by jonstatt
This extra backlight flickering is supposed to give you the feeling of a more stable picture, but in any case it does not double the number of rendered images.
I personally never saw any difference with Clear LCD on or off (with PNM on), so I leave it active.