Your experiences with FW v0.14.99.0 for 8000, 9000 and 21:9 series (2011 models)

I have made better ajustements for both HD and SD source and these are my final settings for now.
I hope Philips improve this, PNM on, maybe speed calculations, optimize subroutines..., improve and enlarge the grey scale for better image in the dark, in the dark scenes sometimes i ask what we should we see or not, its dificult. Moving objects in the action scene still gets artifacts and shadows...

Below are my current 40PFL8606 settings TV:
Smart Picture: ISF Day
Backlight contrast: 56
Brightness: 40
Color: 32
Sharpness: 3
Noise red.: Minimum
Tint: Custom
R Gain 117
G Gain 87
B Gain 75
R-BL: 2
G-BL: -2
B-BL: 1
PNM: Max
Clear LCD: On
Super res.: On
Perfect contrast: Minimum
Dynamic backlight: Standart
MPEG art. red.: Minimum
Colour enhancement: off
Gamma: 0
Video contrast: 84
Light sensor: Off
Picture format: widescreen
edges : 4

Smart Picture: ISF Nigth
Backlight contrast: 40
Brightness: 40
Color: 32
Sharpness: 3
Noise red.: Minimum
Tint: Custom
R Gain 117
G Gain 87
B Gain 75
R-BL: 2
G-BL: -2
B-BL: 1
PNM: Max
Clear LCD: On
Super res.: On
Perfect contrast: Minimum
Dynamic backlight: Standart
MPEG art. red.: Minimum
Colour enhancement: off
Gamma: 1
Video contrast: 90
Light sensor: Off
Picture format: widescreen
edges : 4

Is there a good settings for 9706
thanks

Quote:

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Originally Posted by buyukbang

My experience with ..99 is like below:

I watched "the Raven" last night, a movie with lots of dark scenes, I noticed adjusting process of local dimming is more noticeable than 0.98. For example, on a dark scene, the actor makes very slow movements where he sat down (fixed place), but even with these slow movements dimming of the darkness of the room was changing (being adjusted) continuously, which gives wrong and distracting picture drawings.

However I cannot confirm "the grey" issue, I checked black bars on 4:3 content, on my STB menu, etc. They all had strong and beautiful blacks as before. ( I'm using Using Cinema Mode with Local Dimming set as Standart without any other modification)

But I'm still not happy with the distracting (imho, buggy implementation) dimming adjustment. I'll switch back to previous firmware and test this movie again.

BTW, I'm not interested with PNM improvements: I always use TV as PNM deactivated since I don't like what it does on the picture.

@zlatko,
I'm also waiting for your 0.98 upload, I'll switch back to previous firmware. Thanks !

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by mk81

I can confirm the problems mentioned by Toengel with my 9956 using activated dynamic backlight settings and activated perfect contrast.

Moreover and worst: it seems to me that the "moving artefacts", which I almost only knew from the 9955 up to today, now are also appearing much more often and painfully more visible on the 9956.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by buyukbang

"moving backlight artefacts", I think this is the right term for what I want to express in my previous report here in previous page. Yes, this was very bad and very distracting in 0.99 and I downgraded mainly because of that issue.

@Philips, please roll back what you did for Local Dimming logic in 0.99 and preserve other fixes in the next firmware built.

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Now I found another problem that causes Dynamic Backlighting works wrong. See the following link, I can confirm that this issue exists on my 52PFL9606 with both 0.98 and 0.99 firmwares.


http://www.supportforum.philips.com/...r-on-32PFL9705


SubtitleDimming.mpg (its download link is given on the first post of the above thread) is a good example that clearly shows the problem. I also confirmed same issue with several bluray and mkv movies with dark scenes. All gives the same result. When subtitles are shown a total (mean covers all the screen area) dimming increase occurs, when the subtitle disappears, all the screen becomes darker. If you think that subtitles are shown/disappears with a high frequency, this makes really annoying everything even you cannot watch the movie, you can find yourself just looking at this strange and dummy screen backligting fluctuation like fireworks !!!

I tested both "Best Picture Quallity" and "Standart" settings, they give the same result.

@Toengel & @Zlatko,
Could you please test and confirm the issue with the latest firmware.

@Philips,
This problem really causes a very bad user experience since I always watch movies with subtitles. Only turning off Dynamic Backlight option solves this issue. But hey, I give too much buck for an High End TV with local dimming! Please fix this in the next release.

Regards...

@buyukbang
I will test and share my observations here.
I am watching HD movies with subtitles very often and so far I haven't noticed such an issue. When I upgraded to 14.99 at first I noticed the TV lightens up a whole band/stripe edge to edge on the screen under subtitles. Now that I have dramatically lowered my backlight and brightness settings due to changes in dimming logic in 14.99 I do not notice this when watching normally, straight ahead of the screen. But I really need to do some tests when I have time to fiddle with this, to give you my opinion.

@zlatko,

I also never noticed this issue till now. Now after discovering this issue, I can see it on all dark scenes:(

I'm using Cinema Mod with Dinamic Backlight option is set to Standart without ohter modifications. So my brigtheness, contrast and backlight settings are pretty low in the Cinema mod. Unfortunately, I think no setting can fix this issue.

I'm waiting your feedback mate.

@buyukbang
I have tried several times to see the issue with subtitles on dark content. I can not tell I notice any distracting artefacts. Watched like 10min. of Harry Potter 3 - looks very good. Watched the clip from "Entrapment" that Freddy had posted in the original thread about the issue - still looks good to me. During the weekend I will download and test the other clips. This Olympic games take most of my time infront TV, so not much time for tests :)

PS. My settings are with contrast at 50 and brightness to 52 since 14.99. Dynamic backlight to Standard.

Thanks for the test ! To be honest, I'm really surprised with your feedback, I was pretty sure that you'll confirm the issue since we both have 52PFL9606. The clip that Freddy had posted in the first message of the the thread show the issue very clearly to me.

I'll try your settings you give in the below link with your latest modifications (contrast:50 brightness:52) included, then post the result here:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by zlatko

@buyukbang
I have tried several times to see the issue with subtitles on dark content. I can not tell I notice any distracting artefacts. Watched like 10min. of Harry Potter 3 - looks very good. Watched the clip from "Entrapment" that Freddy had posted in the original thread about the issue - still looks good to me. During the weekend I will download and test the other clips. This Olympic games take most of my time infront TV, so not much time for tests :)

PS. My settings are with contrast at 50 and brightness to 52 since 14.99. Dynamic backlight to Standard.

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@buyukbang
To be honest I am surprised as well :) Following your, Toengel's, Freddy's, petasis'(sorry if I missed smbdy) posts in these forums I know I can trust you guys with your judgement what is perceived as good PQ. So I was pretty sure I will notice subtitle issue.
I switched off Ambi and was watching in completely dark room during the night - still no distracting artefacts or issues in overall screen brightness when subtitles are on screen and when not.
When I go near the screen and watch from a side - angle is like 15-25 degrees - I can see some changes and distinguish dynamic backlight operation.
Let me know your observations with Contrast&Brightness around 50 and Gamma at 2. My perfect contrast is at medium.

With same setting you shared here and contrast:50 brightness:52 modifications as you suggested I got the same sad result as seen on my own video record given below. I only turned off Perfect Contrast. You can see how bad local dimming works with subtitles :(

http://www.sendspace.com/file/zujam5

I can clearly say after my tests:
- No single picture/advanced video setting can fix that except turning off dynamic backlight or turning on (minumum, medium or maximum, all settings are OK except off) Perfect Contrast.
- I can perfectly see this problem from every angle, so not related with that.
- You can see that problem in a dark room, but as you can see in my video record, it's still very clear in day light.
- You can see that problem in a dark scene, but I can now easily see backlight changes caused by subtitles in bright scenes.

This is clearly a problem of local dimming algorithm with Perfect Contrast disabled, so I think it's possible to fix by a firmware upgrade.

I recorded this video in 1080p high quality format (250 mb) but because of the big file size, I shared the link of downsized (8mb) version. If Philips changes wants to fix this issue I can provide high quality video record file to inspect it better.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by zlatko

@buyukbang
To be honest I am surprised as well :) Following your, Toengel's, Freddy's, petasis'(sorry if I missed smbdy) posts in these forums I know I can trust you guys with your judgement what is perceived as good PQ. So I was pretty sure I will notice subtitle issue.
I switched off Ambi and was watching in completely dark room during the night - still no distracting artefacts or issues in overall screen brightness when subtitles are on screen and when not.
When I go near the screen and watch from a side - angle is like 15-25 degrees - I can see some changes and distinguish dynamic backlight operation.
Let me know your observations with Contrast&Brightness around 50 and Gamma at 2. My perfect contrast is at medium.

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My TV is 21:9 58pfl9956. I can not reproduce this failure of the subtitles. Works fine. I have some single point failure in some very dark images.

google translator

I just found that the problem is caused only when turning off "Perfect Contrast" . I just set it to medium and everyhing is OK now :)

But I still think that this is a bug since I don't like any image processing mechanisms when watching bluray (OK when it comes to TV) and I just want to see this type contents as they are provided. So I've been always turned off PNM, Perfect Contrast, etc. But now I have to turn on "Perfect Contrast".

Final summary of the whole story:
Perfect Contrast Disabled + Dynamic Backlight Enabled = Subtitle Dimming Artefact

Quote:

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Originally Posted by buyukbang

With same setting you shared here and contrast:50 brightness:52 modifications as you suggested I got the same sad result as seen on my own video record given below. I only turned off Perfect Contrast. You can see how bad local dimming works with subtitles :(

http://www.sendspace.com/file/zujam5

I can clearly say after my tests:
- No single picture/advanced video setting can fix that except turning off dynamic backlight or turning on (minumum, medium or maximum, all settings are OK except off) Perfect Contrast.
- I can perfectly see this problem from every angle, so not related with that.
- You can see that problem in a dark room, but as you can see in my video record, it's still very clear in day light.
- You can see that problem in a dark scene, but I can now easily see backlight changes caused by subtitles in bright scenes.

This is clearly a problem of local dimming algorithm with Perfect Contrast disabled, so I think it's possible to fix by a firmware upgrade.

I recorded this video in 1080p high quality format (250 mb) but because of the big file size, I shared the link of downsized (8mb) version. If Philips changes wants to fix this issue I can provide high quality video record file to inspect it better.

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@buyukbang
You saved me some time of staring at the screen - I was just starting tests again, as on your video I can clearly see the subtitle issue! :)
I was wondering what is wrong with my eyes as I can not see it on my TV.
So lesson for us all - we have to state clearly ALL our picture settings when doing such tests.

EDIT: Confirmed - with Perfect Contrast OFF I can see subtitle issue even in bright daylight.

Zlatko,

thank you very much for the confirmation !

This bug made me really feel bad about my TV during the past days. After finding a workaround fix with Perfect Contrast setting, I'm planning to enjoy again watching bluray on my TV this night, :)

BTW,
I wish we could find a solution for the DSE issue since Philips simply ignore it :(

Quote:

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Originally Posted by zlatko

@buyukbang
You saved me some time of staring at the screen - I was just starting tests again, as on your video I can clearly see the subtitle issue! :)
I was wondering what is wrong with my eyes as I can not see it on my TV.
So lesson for us all - we have to state clearly ALL our picture settings when doing such tests.

EDIT: Confirmed - with Perfect Contrast OFF I can see subtitle issue even in bright daylight.

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kookaburra,
Sorry but as you can see from the last messages, we just find that Perfect Contrast OFF + Dynamic Backlight is ON causes the issue. You may want to recheck with these settings.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ;38007

My TV is 21:9 58pfl9956. I can not reproduce this failure of the subtitles. Works fine. I have some single point failure in some very dark images.

google translator

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by buyukbang

BTW,
I wish we could find a solution for the DSE issue since Philips simply ignore it :(

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so true... I called in to philip norway for almost 3 weeks ago and they said they will call me up for picking my tv up for dse checking but never did :( hope they will change the panel and hope the new panel will be much better. The DSE is kinda killing SD sending and Bluray movie :mad:

@buyukbang
About DSE Philips basically said it is normal to be there. It is sad, but we can not do anything. It is manufacturing/engineering defect. Can not be corrected with SW changes.

@kingzapp
There is slight chance that DSE on your new panel will be less noticeable. But don't hold your breath ;)