why no love for native 24p playback?

**Nandroltom** · 02-03-2011, 12:42 PM

Hi,

I was wondering, why Philips is so reluctant to support real 24p playback like all other brands do now. I mean, sure, there is this motion compensation technique they want to sell as an outstanding feature. But what about us people who don't like the soap opera effect and want to watch their bluray is it is intended to be watched: true 24 pictures / second and not this terrible, terrible 2:3 pulldown that strains the eye?
Is there a valid vechnical reason for that or is this just marketing?
Oh, I own a 5605H by the way.

**petasis** · 02-03-2011, 04:13 PM

I think that my 9000 series TV (I have an 9705) does accept 24Hz without a problem. The look is comparable to other brands in 24p, so I assume there is no 3:2 pull down involved... (But I prefer the more real-life look of motion compensation, and not so much the cinema look of only 24 frames per second and the judder it makes...)

**Alicia** · 02-03-2011, 05:03 PM

My tv supports 1080p24

, but what I'm missing is support for 23.976Hz.
Reason: lots of media files have a framerate of 23.976 fps that are now played at some other framerate causing judder.

**Nandroltom** · 02-03-2011, 05:56 PM

@petasis:
do the following to test if your TV supports native 24p: get a media player that is capable of 1080p24 and 1080p60. Mine is a WD TV live. Select each setting in the media player and watch the same movie scene. Ideally someone else sets up the player for you and you repeat watching multiple times, so you cannot cheat yourself. If you do notice a visual difference, your TV plays 24p. I know mine doesn't because I notice no visual difference with my Philips, but do notice the vast improvement on the Sharp LCD of my friend.
Also: the support hotline says so, so it must be right.

@alicia
Are you sure that the reason of this isn't the media player?

**Philips** · 02-04-2011, 09:26 AM

Philips is offering the experience setting ‘Cinema’ for this purpose.
Then there is no motion conversion and the original frame judder is maintained.

**Toengel** · 02-04-2011, 09:32 AM

Hi,

such information should be integrated in the manual AND the integrated help of the TVs...

Toengel@Alex

**Nandroltom** · 02-04-2011, 10:42 AM

So, when I select the "Cinema" smart picture mode preset, the TV changes its usual 2:3 pulldown to a say 4:4 or 5:5 pulldown? I always thought the presets were just presets and do not change anything else?
- With the exception of the "game" preset, which allows the PC mode.

**Toengel** · 02-04-2011, 10:46 AM

Hi,

this support my request for a detailed description of the presets in the manual and integrated help/manual embedded in the TV.

The integrated manual can easily be updated and the standard manual PDF too...

Toengel@Alex

**kyuss** · 02-04-2011, 03:37 PM

Greetings!

I have connected my Philips (32pfl5405) to the pc via Ati HD3200. I have set the resolution to profile 1080p@24 (1920x1080@24Hz), and I have set the tv smart picture profile to Cinema, and still in the movies I experience judgering. Afcourse, the movie has 23,976fps. So what to do? Does Philips have at all 24p move playback capability that is actually working on htpc?!

**Nandroltom** · 02-04-2011, 04:15 PM

Originally Posted by Philips

Philips is offering the experience setting ‘Cinema’ for this purpose.
Then there is no motion conversion and the original frame judder is maintained.

Sorry, that's incorrect. I just tested it. The "Cinema" setting is not different from the other presets. Since I have disabled natural motion in every setting, there is no visible difference. The 2:3 pulldown judder is still there.
So, at least the phone support was right in their statement that Philips only does 2:3 pulldown

**kyuss** · 02-05-2011, 11:48 PM

Originally Posted by Alicia

My tv supports 1080p24

, but what I'm missing is support for 23.976Hz.
Reason: lots of media files have a framerate of 23.976 fps that are now played at some other framerate causing judder.

23.976 Hz is actually 24 Hz. The number is simply rounded up.

@Nandroltom

You were talking that you have seen the difference between 24Hz and 60Hz playback on your friends tv. Can you tell me which one looked better?

**Nandroltom** · 02-06-2011, 09:00 AM

Originally Posted by kyuss

23.976 Hz is actually 24 Hz. The number is simply rounded up.

No, there are actually some blurays encoded in 24Hz. However, I don't know what the players make out of this. The WD TV used to have different settings, 23.976 and 24, but they eliminated the 23.976 setting in the latest firmware versions.

Originally Posted by kyuss

You were talking that you have seen the difference between 24Hz and 60Hz playback on your friends tv. Can you tell me which one looked better?

Well, the 24p setting, of course.

**kyuss** · 02-06-2011, 01:17 PM

Didn't knew that about 24Hz.

About the difference... Did you looked at the fast scenes (i.e. when camera pans really quick)? Because i have read that in those scenes 60Hz and 3:2 pulldown actually does look better or should i say smoother.

**Nandroltom** · 02-06-2011, 02:58 PM

The visual perception is viewer dependent. This statement however seems rather illogical. But again, if someone says so, I won't argue. It's their perception.

**kyuss** · 02-06-2011, 04:02 PM

It's not that illogical if you think about it for a moment. 24 pictures in second are not enough to cover all the aspects of moving object. Even movie directors try to make movements as slowly as possible. Now, 48 Hz is completely different thing. 48Hz and 2:2 pulldown doesn't affect that way the picture as 3:2 pulldown, and even it's the same method (duplicating the frames), 48Hz is closer to the human eye as the moving picture then 24Hz. Too bad our Philips TVs don't support 48Hz or 72, 96 or even 120 Hz refresh rates and the ability to generate matching pulldowns.

Topic: why no love for native 24p playback?

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