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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuss View Post
    It's not that illogical if you think about it for a moment. 24 pictures in second are not enough to cover all the aspects of moving object. Even movie directors try to make movements as slowly as possible. Now, 48 Hz is completely different thing. 48Hz and 2:2 pulldown doesn't affect that way the picture as 3:2 pulldown, and even it's the same method (duplicating the frames), 48Hz is closer to the human eye as the moving picture then 24Hz. Too bad our Philips TVs don't support 48Hz or 72, 96 or even 120 Hz refresh rates and the ability to generate matching pulldowns.
    so from what you saying the philips tv only plays back at 24 and 60 hz im wondering thats why im seen motion judder there is a scen in casino royale where i can see this realy bad

  2. #17
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    My Philips can support 24, 25, 30, 50 and 60HZ refresh rate (and 100Hz, but that comes from Pixel Plus processing). I just don't know what's the efficiency of 24p ability, now that Nandroltom said he saw the difference between 24p on Philips and 24p on Sharp.

    Funny you should mention Casino Royale. That scene you're talking about is probably the same scene that is described in this column which explains 24p phenomenon: http://www.projectorcentral.com/judder_24p.htm
    Last edited by kyuss; 02-06-2011 at 05:54 PM.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuss View Post
    My Philips can support 24, 25, 30, 50 and 60HZ refresh rate (and 100Hz, but that comes from Pixel Plus processing). I just don't know what's the efficiency of 24p ability, now that Nandroltom said he saw the difference between 24p on Philips and 24p on Sharp.

    Funny you should mention Casino Royale. That scene you're talking about is probably the same scene that is described in this column which explains 24p phenomenon: http://www.projectorcentral.com/judder_24p.htm
    sorry wich philips tv do you own and yes that is the same part off the movie i see the judder have you seen this on your tv im just trying to find out if my tv needs repering

  4. #19
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    I have Philips 32pfl5405/12. Judder has nothing to do with the tv being broke. Judder is normal. Too bad our tvs can't decrease it.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuss View Post
    I have Philips 32pfl5405/12. Judder has nothing to do with the tv being broke. Judder is normal. Too bad our tvs can't decrease it.
    yes i think you right becuse i just played the same movies on our 3 year old samsung and the judder was there but not bad as the philips.do you think i can improve this judders by changing my bluray player or it wont make any diffrence

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by ali54 View Post
    yes i think you right becuse i just played the same movies on our 3 year old samsung and the judder was there but not bad as the philips.do you think i can improve this judders by changing my bluray player or it wont make any diffrence
    are you playing original blu ray dvd's or bad quality downloaded rips?

    I can't really answer your question. The best way would probably be if you could try out other media players (i.e. ps3, wdtv, mede8er and so on...) on your tv and see how do they behave. I don't have any experience with those players, only with pc atached on the tv.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuss View Post
    are you playing original blu ray dvd's or bad quality downloaded rips?

    I can't really answer your question. The best way would probably be if you could try out other media players (i.e. ps3, wdtv, mede8er and so on...) on your tv and see how do they behave. I don't have any experience with those players, only with pc atached on the tv.
    im useing ps3 and panasoinc bluray player and original discs

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuss View Post
    My Philips can support 24, 25, 30, 50 and 60HZ refresh rate (and 100Hz, but that comes from Pixel Plus processing). I just don't know what's the efficiency of 24p ability, now that Nandroltom said he saw the difference between 24p on Philips and 24p on Sharp.
    That's not really what I said. My statement was:
    Sharp 24p not eqal to Sharp 60p
    Philips 24p equal to Philips 60p
    You should always spot a difference when comparing different TV sets.

    Quote Originally Posted by kyuss View Post
    Funny you should mention Casino Royale. That scene you're talking about is probably the same scene that is described in this column which explains 24p phenomenon: http://www.projectorcentral.com/judder_24p.htm
    In my opinion and in the opinion of many commenters, the author has no idea what he is talking about.
    Basically it comes to this: Older technique was better, because it BLURRED the image way more!
    Remember the old Super 8 films? Although there were very few pictures / second taken, no one complained about motion "judder" because when the camera was moved, everything dissolved into a blurry mess.
    The same can be said about old LCD tvs that simply were not fast enough to display sharp single images that differed much from the previous picture. Definitively not something I am missing.
    However, this guy can be helped: Stop buying blurays. Buy DVDs and use a Scart Cable. The resulting picture should be blurry enough to compensate for the motion judder.

    One more thing about the 24p support. What I don't understand is that we now have the ultimate medium for films (bluray) with nearly unlimited capacity and yet there is not a single film disc with more than 24 (or maybe 25) pictures per second. If motion compensation is so great, why isn't it included on the film's disc in the first place? Why do the TV manufacturers think that they can make the picture of "the perfect HD experience" better? And why is there a 24p standard when the manufacurers think: "24p? Ah, screw that, we don't support that. We do motion compensation, that look way better than the original" ?

  9. #24
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    Yes, I see what you mean, and now I understand that this column isn't elaborated good enough. I don't know what is the reason why movie companies don't make movies with 60 pictures in second. Maybe the reason lies in the fact that they would need to buy new equipment.

    In the meanwhile the best solution for the judder that i have found lies in movie player software. Afcourse you would need to play the movies from your pc connected to the tv. The name of the software is Splash Pro player and it is the best player that i have ever seen (and i saw alot of players). The thing is that it has Motion2 ability. And this is the ability that today probably every 100Hz tv has (i.e. Philips HD NAtural Motion). Software interpolates the frames between the frames. You don't get completely judder free movie, but around 95% of the movie which is good enough. And the other 5% judder is alot smoother and bareable. Some people don't like the "soap" look but that opinion is subjective. I think that it looks much better than soaps and I can't watch the movie without it. To me this is better than 24p playback, because even if you get smooth playback without "soap look" via 24p you are watching 24 pictures in second. Using the frame interpolation you get 60 pictures per seconds which is much less tireing for the eye.
    Last edited by kyuss; 02-12-2011 at 10:40 AM.

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