SACD on BluRay philips

[Manuel]

Why Philips BluRay player's don't support SACD?

[Toengel]

Hi,

i think it is a hardware issue... different laser wavelengths...

Toengel@Alex

[Paulo Roberto Elias]

Well, not exactly. SACD is based on the DVD format and it will be read by any DVD or Blu-Ray player. To incorporate DSD decoding Philips would have to include a suitable chip and software.

[Manuel]

There is an information in this forum that 2012 BDplayers (any more info on that?), will be able to read SACD, they will be able to read DSD Disc Format (some kind of DSD files burn on DVDR or BDR)?

http://bluecoastrecords.com/dsd-info
how to record DSD disc:
http://ps3sacd.com/dsddiscguide.html

[Toengel]

Hi,

see also: http://www.supportforum.philips.com/...ll=1#post25264

Two 2012 models will support SACD.

Toengel@Alex

[Manuel]

Specification of DSD Disk (by Sony?):

http://ps3sacd.com/downloads/DSDDiscFormatSpecs.pdf

[Paulo Roberto Elias]

There is an information in this forum that 2012 BDplayers (any more info on that?), will be able to read SACD, they will be able to read DSD Disc Format (some kind of DSD files burn on DVDR or BDR)?

http://bluecoastrecords.com/dsd-info
how to record DSD disc:
http://ps3sacd.com/dsddiscguide.html

Hi, Manuel,

Just trying to shed some light in this topic (hopefully), please let me point out the following:

Although physically an SACD is either a single or dual layer DVD, SACD commercial pressing includes a protection scheme called "Pit Signal Processing", which cannot be duplicated (dubbed) onto DVD-R/RW.

Those guys at the Blue Coast Records site do not mention that in order to play an ISO SACD burned to DVD-R you would also need a SACD player that will ignore the Pit Signal Processing protection.

There was a list publicized some years ago about those players: http://www.gearslutz.com/board/maste...mastering.html, and there may be newer players with the same capability today.

Ignoring PSP is a flaw, as the author of the posting claims, in the design of those players, and so it may very well been removed in recent manufactured players.

The same goes for the PS3, whose recent models and firmwares would not allow ripping SACD content and recoding them to PCM. There are, as far as I know, modified Oppo DVD players that can extract SACD tracks to PCM @ 88.2 kHz/24 bits, which is the standard converting procedure to PCM in all Oppo players.

I must confess to you that I am not really sure if it is worthy going through all that trouble, just to see an SACD duplicated. Please bear in mind that any user provided with a suitable player and A/V receiver can get the best sound possible off SACDs, via HDMI, which is not downconverted to 88.2/24 or any other PCM format.

A significant number of recent SACD players can actually output DSD via HDMI. An external processor that is fitted to decode it, will get the 2.8224 MHz (2.8224 Mbits/s) DSD signal in 8 chunks of 44.1 kHz at 8 bits each. The external decoder will add these back to 2.8224 MHz 1 bit sample (8 x 44.1 x 8) before decoding.

It is a clever way to send the entire DSD signal to an external processor, with no need to convert it to PCM, unless there is bass management applied at some stage. You can also apply what is called "pure SACD" if your processor has means to defeat equalizer circuitry or any other resource for signal manipulation before playback.

Sadly, SACD format is currently a dying format, and the reason why it is not dead already is the fact that the disc itself cannot be backed up or duplicated. All these propositions to that effect have flaws and they are not at the reach of ordinary consumers.

I have stated before in this forum, and I will say it again: unless player manufacturers do not offer SACD playback, the format will surely die, which is bad for the audiophile or music fan.

Of the two developers Sony is doing its share, in practically all of their recent Blu-Ray players, including DSD output, and I hope that Philips will really do the same this year.

[Manuel]

Sony vaio can produce and read DSD disc, and there are a codec for WMP10/11 to play it (converting to PCM 24bits96kHz), and now days foobar also read and play dsd disc.

http://ps3sacd.com/dsddiscguide.html

[Paulo Roberto Elias]

Yes, but DSD files on a DSD disc and SACDs are completely different formats, and there is no guarantee that a standalone player will ever read DSD files on a disc or on a flash drive. In my gear at least they do not.

Foobar2000 can read those DSD files but they are, if I am not mistaken, restricted to stereo. Incidentally, I could not install the SACD component to Foobar (it produces an error before installation is finalized), and I could never get that DSD to PCM plugin for WMP to work. Whenever I insert a non-hybrid SACD in my PC it will not read it or load it.

The same is not true for DVD-Audio: they are easy to author with domestic software, there is no limitation for multichannel, and the final disc can be played on any compatible standalone DVD-A player.

If Philips is going to the trouble of building themselves a SACD player they might very well contemplate the playback of DVD-Audio, since you can only play 192/24 PCM stereo this way.

[Manuel]

@Paulo
Tank´s for sharing your experience with us, I will be happy if Philips Bd players of list support FLACK 24bits or PCM 24bits over USB.

[Paulo Roberto Elias]

Manuel,

You're welcome. It is a pleasure to exchange info about audio.

Playing back PCM files including compressed formats like flac is no big deal really. It is a matter of choosing and installing integrated DACs that will allow the manufacturer to make those capabilities available.

Now that HDMI is the compulsory means of connection to external processors, bitrate limitations can be easily overcome!

[Manuel]

Philips, any news about 2012 model's that support SACD?