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  1. #1
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    9700: Dark shade is a bit muddy

    Hi

    Over the weekend, I watched a few Blu-rays on 9700. The feeling is just not right when compared to 9600. 9600 gave me crisp, pleasant and natural looking pictures and a well balance between dark and bright areas. 9700 on the other hand gives reddish picture and dark shades look muddy and losing details.

    In order to figure out what's the issue on 9700, I tried changing a couple of settings both on 9700 and my TV. Couldn't find a decisive factor until I changed the brightness on 9700's Video > Personal setting. I changed the brightness from default 0 to 8. Now the dark shades look much more pleasant. I can also see more detail in dark areas.

    Then I played around by pausing the video (on a scene mixed with dark and bright areas) and switched between all the default settings i.e. "No Optimization", "Internet video", "Documentary", "Animation", "Optimal" and compared against my "personal settings" with brightness=8. Seems to me the default brightness level in 9700 is way too dark.

    Does anyone observe the same?

    [update]
    With a bit more test, 8 gives a little white cast over dark areas. I reduce to 5 to maintain a balance between good black level and detail in dark area.

    My firmware is 3.80.

    [update 2]
    Revert brightness on 9700 back to 0 to maintain overall dynamic range (I presume Philips engineers think the default looks best on 9700). Instead I push my LCD TV's brightness level up 4 notches. This compensates 9700's dark setup.
    Last edited by kvic; 05-21-2013 at 12:56 PM.

  2. #2
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    Nice setting. Well Ive read a lot about picture settings and calibrations. Spent to much time always trying to optimize. The calibrated perfect picture is kinda boring to beginn with. But after many many movies you realise. Aha this is it.
    On the other hand. That doesnt sell. Specially not in a store or out of the box. Consumers doesnt really want that either. They want a mindblowing picture. Not that the green frog is exactly as recorded. We wanna be amazed. A little fooled and seduced.
    Ok back to the technical :-)
    I would love a setting in tv. Projectors. Dvd players etc that says. "Calibrated ". Wt* is movie, Games and Cinema that is the most refered pre settings. This got nothing to to with philips. All brands have strange settups and none is really "real"
    I do have to admit I really like the optimized setting. But maybe as you noticed a bit adjustment in the dark area. Tnx for sharing the settings you find satisfying.

  3. #3
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    I fully share your sentiment. I wonder how many consumers will calibrate their TVs. Most users will probably use as-is out of box or try the manufacturers' presets. In fact to save our life so that to spend more time on enjoying the content, I would appreciate any AV equipment manufacturer simplify the functionality and provide good calibration out of factory. A few presets with calibration appropriate for their intents will be perfect. Who wants to tweak if it just works (read Apple's displays...) ?

    Given that said I think 9700 is trying to achieve that but is based on a generic assumption rather than doing the right thing. I'm quite sure out of box, 9700 picture looks great on most users' TVs which in general stay with a high brightness level. Hence, 9700's default toward the dark side becomes a good match.

    Unfortunately my TV was adjusted with calibrated values borrowed from the internet and 9700's presets look too dark. Surprisingly 9600's default looked perfect on my TV. I was amazed at 9600 when I realized how little tweak I had to do on picture quality on day1. Now I understand...that's the good work from 9600's calibration! From a marketing perspective, there is nothing right or wrong. I feel that 9700 is trying to tackle the general public while 9600 is more staying with the truth.

    Or maybe it's just a mis-step by 9700's engineer and he or she can revive the glory balance of dark and bright on default settings ? Would be very good to hear from Philips on this.
    Last edited by kvic; 05-20-2013 at 02:06 PM.

  4. #4
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    This is intresting.
    If you go professional standard for exaple that pinnacle station for video-editing you could by in the 90,s wich costed more than a porche. THOSE screens where calibrated. :-)
    I think you find that more common within pro-areas.

    For ex in in RIIA amplifiers to your turntable there is a standard on how to filter the signal.
    I looked more inte the mixing content of Dobly pro logic surround and DD And that was a joke :-) There is not much of a standard on how to make such recording ( 2003*) So even in the pro market we find some holes.


    For the cosumer market we find ourself trusting for ex in THX mark on an amplifiers, though actually the THX mark got more to do with viewing angle, soundpressury by ear inside a cinema etc. ( and THX klogo is silly expensive to put on your product if you are a manufacturer)

    Is there a lack in calibration-standard for the comsumer market ? Kvic, your on to something, there should be a preset on all product. Wasnt there on old standard to your CRT monitor called ICC standards ? ( International Colour consortium) . You wanted to mach up your printer,scanner and your monitor.
    How do you today math up your tv, projector and homevideo-set when you watch ex pictures from your digital camera ? you buy a calibrationdisc that comes in expensive boxes. !
    But its a bit silly I think,2013, that there is no preset all over the market that follows a standard.

    more info about ISO standards
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ICC_profile
    Last edited by Stormen; 05-20-2013 at 02:51 PM.

  5. #5
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    You brought up good points on different display technologies such as TV (LCD / OLED / Plasma) and projectors. Less likely one set of calibrations on 9700 will bring good match against the common display types. I guess I was lucky to get 9600 whose default was a very good match of my LCD TV.

    Being more thoughtful, a manufacturer shouldn't feel hard from engineering perspective to have different sets of calibrations on 9700 for common displays such as LCD / OLED / Plasma / projectors or a subset of the display technologies.

    The issue I'm having on 9700 is that when I push the brightness to 5, I could see the dynamic range is pitiful in dark scenes. Hence, upon trial and error, I reverted brightness on 9700 back to 0 which gives an overall balance from the darkest to the brightest I presume. Instead, I pushed up my TV's brightness level by 4 steps (out of 100 total steps). At the moment, I find it quite satisfactory and compensate 9700's dark setup.

    I'm still amazed with 9600's picture quality and have the impression that 9700 is calibrated not in the same fashion as 9600.

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