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  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by ping View Post
    It is in fact a shame that the discussion has become more emotional than tangible. Customers curse, insult one another while Philips seems to stay in the background. If you ask a search-engine for "Philips violating EU law" you will see the reputation damage a vendor can harvest, ignoring customers inquiries and criticism. Not the intention!
    Hi Ping,

    I agree! You started this subject because you discoved something about the power consumption. You - and other users - are just waiting for some answers and a sollution.

    To me it's strange that (some) people start insulting each-other. Absolutely not neccesairy! Answers and usefull information are welcome...

    Regards, Jarno.
    Last edited by Jarnimo; 06-11-2014 at 08:10 AM.

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    My findings

    I test my 55PFL6188S TV with power meter. I have standard 230V Euro electricity supply.

    Power consumption when on: 50 to 57W
    Put TV into standby, power drops to 23W approx for a few seconds then drops to 0W.

    Good I think, my TV is OK. I leave power meter plugged in overnight. I get up in morning and TV is consuming 23W again! USB devices are getting power. It is just after 06:30 in morning.
    I turn TV on and get DVB-T channel. Within 1 minute TV auto reboots

    Why TV consume more power later on? Is it to do with satellite find new channels at 4am? Nobody touch TV during the night.

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    Hi all,

    The reason for our reluctance to respond to this case in the past week, has been due to an internal investigation of a separate case on this forum, which has also involved this thread.

    We apologise for the delay in our response, but would now like to clarify a few things in regards to the power consumption specifications of our TVs.

    The facts are as follows:

    According to EU legislation, a TV needs to have a standby or an Off-mode which consumes less than 0.5W (standby) or less than 0.3W (Off-mode).
    There is a guidance document on the Ecodesign regulation published by ADCO in which it is stated that the standby mode is only valid for the default state of the set. Any other standby mode obtained by enabling a feature does not have to comply to the <0.5W.

    Extract from the ADCO guideline:

    (3a) Question: Does Regulation EC/642/2009 apply to standby conditions other than what is provided as a default standby setting by the television when put on the market?

    (3a) Answer: No, the requirements from Commission Regulation (EC) No 642/2009 apply to the conditions in which the product is placed on the market. Therefore, as long as the product is placed on the market with a compliant default standby condition, the product should be considered compliant. Other standby conditions offered by the product, which are disabled by default but can be enabled by the user according to his or her preference, are not covered by the standby requirement.

    If the TV is in its default standby mode with Quick Start mode (or other elective feature modes) completely disabled, the TV set is specified to consume less than 0.1 Watt.
    As the Quick Start mode (or other elective feature modes) is Off by default, the standby mode in which it is enabled, does not have to comply to the standby regulation.

    To put the Quick Start function in very broad strokes it is a state in which the TV is in essence “On”, but with the picture and sound disabled. The power consumption can therefore vary depending on external factors (i.e. connected external devices), which may also switch on during Quick Start mode.

    However, one point that does need to be highlighted is a previous software issue in which the TV would indicate Quick Start mode as disabled even though it was in fact still enabled. This issue was resolved with software version QF2EU-0.171.56.0 (Date published: 2013-09-05) – “Improvements in quick startup implementation”.

    Therefore we highly recommend upgrading the TV software to implement this solution. If your TV is not updated past this software version any complaints about power consumption would be rendered invalid due to out-dated software, unfortunately.

    Another factor to be aware of is the USB recording and features. When a scheduled recording is initialised, this again requires the TV to enter into a semi-standby mode for the duration of the recording process.

    I hope this answers your many questions and concerns in regards to power consumption and regulations, but also our reasons for asking the questions that we previously have. Any constructive questions any of you may still have in this regard, please feel free to ask!

    On that note, I would like to remind all users to read the Forum Terms of Use in regards to general behaviour guidelines. This thread turned rather unpleasant and was perhaps not the most pleasant experience for other users and the original poster.
    http://www.supportforum.philips.com/...1-Terms-of-use

    Best regards,
    Ina
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  6. #94
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    Hi,

    thanks for clarification!

    So, if anyone seems to have an increased power consumption even if Quick Start is disabled, I (personally) suggest to make a factory reset and install the TV again. If this still is happening, a service should be needed.

    My 2 cents...

    Toengel@Alex

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  8. #95
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    Hi everyone,

    I don't own a power consumption meter. So I can't test the power usage. Last week I made a full factory reset and a fresh install of my 6008 TV.

    For what I understand from Toengel; The Tv with a factory reset (with quick start disabled) should use <0,1 w in stand-by modus!

    What i read and understood at this thread:

    Some people are complaing that once you touch the Quickstart setting you cannot turn it OFF anymore? Some peope were complaining about this with the last firmware releases.
    Is this truth or is this - like Ina said - resolved since fw. QF2EU-0.171.56.0 (Date published: 2013-09-05) ?

    Regards, Jarno.
    Last edited by Jarnimo; 06-17-2014 at 10:43 AM.

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    I CAN NOT SEE ANSWERS FOR CUSTOMERS QUESTIONS !!! WHY ???

    Are all modes standby or not ?
    Function for standby modes is broken or not ?
    ...

    And how Ina will coment this:

    "Not legally binding"

    "These FAQ cannot go beyond or substitute for the requirements of the Ecodesign Directive or its implementing Regulations."

    I ASK AGAIN:
    (b) Power consumption in ‘standby mode(s)’:

    The power consumption of equipment in any condition providing only a reactivation function, or providing only a reactivation function and a mere indication of enabled reactivation function, shall not exceed 1,00 W.
    The power consumption of equipment in any condition providing only information or status display, or providing only a combination of reactivation function and information or status display, shall not exceed 2,00 W

    ALSO:

    Information to be provided by manufacturers
    For the purposes of conformity assessment pursuant to Article 4, the technical documentation shall contain the following elements:
    (a) for each standby and/or off mode:
    — the power consumption data in Watts rounded to the second decimal place,

    "STANDBY MODES" ; "ANY CONDITION" ; "EACH STANDBY MODE" ....

    ARE ALL MODES STANDBY OR NOT ?
    Quote Originally Posted by Toengel View Post

    There are 3 standby modes...
    Quote Originally Posted by Philips - Thomas View Post
    Hi,

    The TV's do have 3 Modes which you can call "Stand By".
    By Stand By, we do mean all States where the TV does not have a Picture on or Sound going trogh, so panel is off.

    Thomas


    WHERE IS INFORMATION FOR POWER CONSUMPTION FOR ALL !!! STANDBY MODES ?


    It is high time to stop this behavior with your customers !!!
    Last edited by dora124; 06-17-2014 at 11:35 AM.

  10. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by dora124 View Post
    I CAN NOT SEE ANSWERS FOR CUSTOMERS QUESTIONS !!! WHY ???

    Are all modes standby or not ?
    No, not all modes are default standby modes.

    Function for standby modes is broken or not ?
    Please specify what you mean by this.
    As explained in my previous post, there was previously a settings issue with Quick Start mode that has been rectified with a software update. Therefore we are not aware of any current issues with standby on the current actual software version.

    ...

    And how Ina will coment this:

    "Not legally binding"

    "These FAQ cannot go beyond or substitute for the requirements of the Ecodesign Directive or its implementing Regulations."
    Please provide the source for the above quote. I will not comment on anything I am unable to verify directly.

    I ASK AGAIN:
    (b) Power consumption in ‘standby mode(s)’:

    The power consumption of equipment in any condition providing only a reactivation function, or providing only a reactivation function and a mere indication of enabled reactivation function, shall not exceed 1,00 W.
    The power consumption of equipment in any condition providing only information or status display, or providing only a combination of reactivation function and information or status display, shall not exceed 2,00 W

    ALSO:

    Information to be provided by manufacturers
    For the purposes of conformity assessment pursuant to Article 4, the technical documentation shall contain the following elements:
    (a) for each standby and/or off mode:
    — the power consumption data in Watts rounded to the second decimal place,

    "STANDBY MODES" ; "ANY CONDITION" ; "EACH STANDBY MODE" ....

    ARE ALL MODES STANDBY OR NOT ? WHERE IS INFORMATION FOR POWER CONSUMPTION FOR ALL !!! MODES ?
    Please also state your TV model number and your reasons for your concern about the TVs power consumption.

    We will not enter into a debate about the terminology and wording in the end user manual. The user manual is designed for consumer use and not technical specification.

    Again, please provide the source for the information you quote above.

    Best regards,
    Ina
    Forum Mod

  11. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Philips - Ina View Post
    No, not all modes are default standby modes.


    Ina
    In EU LAW i read: "Power consumption in ‘standby mode(s)’:"

    That means ALL STANDBY MODES ... no matter that you call them "default" or not ....

    And you (Philips/TPV) tells that all modes are standby !!!

    ... sorry, i can not find word "default" throughout the manual ...


    Quote Originally Posted by Philips - Ina View Post

    Please specify what you mean by this.

    Ina

    I mean this what your service is tell !!!:

    Quote Originally Posted by ping View Post
    Philips called me and said the function is broken.

    AND THIS IS WITH LAST FW !!!


    Quote Originally Posted by Philips - Ina View Post


    Please provide the source for the above quote. I will not comment on anything I am unable to verify directly.
    The SOURSE IS WHAT YOU QUOTE WITH RED LETTERS !!! WHEN YOU QUOTE SOMETHING WITH RED LETTERS IS GOOD TO BE LEGALLY BINDING !!!

    Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) on the Ecodesign Directive
    2009/125/EC establishing a framework for the setting of ecodesign
    requirements for energy-related products and its Implementing
    Regulations

    http://www.google.bg/url?sa=t&rct=j&...68911936,d.bGE


    And if you check your document: 47pfl6008k_12_ep3_aen.pdf - you will see that you are not provided information for ALL standby modes regarding EU LAW!!!
    I WANT TO REPEAT AGAIN - YOU (PHILIPS/TPV) TELL THAT ALL MODES ARE STANDBY !!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by Philips - Ina View Post
    We will not enter into a debate about the terminology and wording in the end user manual. The user manual is designed for consumer use and not technical specification.
    I hope this is not serious !!!

    This is FORUM, and customers are here for DEBATE !!!

    AND USER MANUAL MUST TELL THE TRUE, BECAUSE CUSTOMERS BELIEVES TO USER MANUAL !!!

    Model is the same - 6008 !
    Last edited by dora124; 06-18-2014 at 06:06 AM.

  12. #99
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    Hi all,

    To me all seems like a big misunderstanding; Just the name Quick boot is not a very good choice.

    My suggestion is that Philips changes the name to take away these misunderstandings. I dont know what another name they need to use. Anyone a suggestion? And maybe adding a pop-up screen that says: Be aware: power consumption increases dramaticly!

    Many users (include me) didn't expect that the Tv will use so much energy in this "stanby modus" when quick boot enabled.

    I understand both point of views: Philips and their customers.

    Edit:
    What about: Semi stand-by modus.

    Regards, Jarno.
    Last edited by Jarnimo; 06-17-2014 at 02:24 PM. Reason: Addition

  13. #100
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    I'm testing my tv set (47PFL6158S) with a power consumption meter. My firmware is 173.45 and I've found something strange and in contrast to what is written on the manual and here in this thread: I've switched on the quick boot option and I've found that in standby mode (red led) it doesn't eat more than the usual 0.5W.

    Another strange behaviour is when swtiching off via the back panel button: I thought it would completely switch off the tv, with 0.0W consumption. Instead it is still eating the usual 0.5W like in standby mode.

    Any ideas?

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    Hi,

    in Quick Start mode there are several time slot where the TV is "semi-on", but also "off-times"... see my posts before...

    Some power consumption meters have sometimes problem to measure very low consumptions. But there is a small workaround for that:
    - use a Power Socket Extender
    - connect a normal lamp (NOT a LED or Halogen) to the extender
    - switch on the lamp for some minutes
    - now measure the extender with lamp on
    - this is your basis
    - now connect your TV to the extender and measure the "standby-modes" of the TV
    - you now need to substract the lamp consumption you measured before
    - now you have the result of your TV consumptions

    Toengel@Alex

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    I have spoken to someone who works in international standards in relation to IEEE, BSI and EU compliance standards. On a factory reset TV, the TV should comply with the EU standby directives (i.e. out of the box). Ina, for your information, Dora is quoting Wikipedia which is not a complete copy of the standard and exceptions.

    If the user specifically selects a feature that changes power consumption, they are "electing" voluntarily out of the EU standby compliance.

    If I was to be pedantic from discussions I had with this person, the issue is that Philips/TP-Vision should either put in the documentation, or an on-screen warning, any setting changes that result in higher power consumption.

    But I think its important we are not getting silly about this too. Obviously if you have timer recordings, or use a quickstart feature, the TV is of course going to consume more power.

    The question is, has anyone factory reset their TV to see if the power consumption is correct in this situation?!

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  18. #103
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    Hi,

    Quote Originally Posted by jonstatt View Post
    ...the issue is that Philips/TP-Vision should either put in the documentation
    it's written in the manual.

    Quote Originally Posted by jonstatt View Post
    The question is, has anyone factory reset their TV to see if the power consumption is correct in this situation?!
    I second that... ;-)

    Toengel@Alex

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    Quote Originally Posted by jonstatt View Post
    The question is, has anyone factory reset their TV to see if the power consumption is correct in this situation?!
    Like I said in the other thread (the one now closed) I factory resetted my tv before using the power meter. Anyway I will try also like Toengel said.

    What I find strange is that the tv is consuming even when switched off via the back panel button.

  20. #105
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    Hi,

    Quote Originally Posted by Philips - Ina View Post
    According to EU legislation, a TV needs to have a standby or an Off-mode which consumes less than 0.5W (standby) or less than 0.3W (Off-mode).
    That's what I asked for a test with a extender and a lamp...

    Toengel@Alex

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