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  1. #1
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    PFL9705 New (and Old) Bug List Collection

    Hello again everyone!

    As the months are passing by... and some bugs just won't disappear... I decided to make, which I hope will be, the final thread with a list of some old and a couple of new bugs in and a few small wishes for our PFL9705.



    Old but still present bugs:

    - The first bug I would like to mention again briefly here, is the "Dimming problem every time subtitles appear on PFL9705". This bug can of course be discussed further in its own thread. I just thought it to be easier for Philips to include it in this list.
    (Still not fixed in firmware 140.46!!! After more than a year...)

    - The second bug that needs to be mentioned again of course, as it is still not solved for everyone, is the "Sound drop problem with HDMI sources". This bug is well known and it is being discussed all over this forum.
    (Time to have a small party again!!! The second one of the list that appears to be finally fixed: in firmware 140.46)
    (Unfortunately this problem seems to be still not solved for everyone, especially for those using CI(+), but also for some others. Look here:

    http://58pfl9955.wordpress.com/2012/...it-ci-modulen/)

    - The third "old" bug... not that old, but still... is the "Very low Net TV connection speed problem", also being discussed in a number of threads around here. This bug appears to be introduced by firmware 140.36. Reverting to an older firmware does not solve it, but people smart enough never to touch 140.36 do not have this problem. So apparently 140.36 changed something for the worse, an address maybe, that isn't automatically reset by using another firmware version.
    (Hurray!!! The first one of the list confirmed to be fixed again: in firmware 140.40)


    New bugs:

    - The first "new" bug is one that hasn't been discussed on this forum yet, so here it goes... Unfortunately I haven't been able to make a decent video of it happening (by now I have), so I will try to describe it as accurately as possible.

    The problem is that around two times an evening, at high contrast borders in the picture (in black regions right next to brighter objects), I see some pixels flashing.
    These flashes are just that: very short flashes. They are not confined to certain areas on the screen, they are confined to these, as I called them, high contrast border regions. When they happen once, they will happen a number of times after that: around five to ten times, 3-15 seconds apart. And then they're gone again for a number of hours.

    This has been confirmed by a couple of other people around the web, with different sizes of the PFL9705 and with different firmware versions. Some say the "Clear LCD" setting seems to effect this bug.

    (As I said, by now I finally have been able to catch it on camera, so you can see it for yourself... in case you didn't notice it in person yet:
    Flashes.MP4 - 4.2 MB)



    - The second "new" bug is a "funny" one... Again I will try to describe it as accurately as possible, as capturing it on video requires a good camera and a steady hand.

    This problem happens only with "Dynamic Backlight" = Off and "Clear LCD" = On. When the tv is turned on with these settings as described, everything looks fine. But after a while, ranging from 15 minutes to a couple of hours after the tv has been turned on, panning shots start to look very bad when bright colors are involved.
    Say someone with a red shirt (or any other bright color) pans through the picture, then the color red seems to follow the shirt, juddering around half a centimeter behind where it should be.

    Turning "Dynamic Backlight" on resolves it, but turn it off again and the problem returns immediately.
    However, turning "Clear LCD" off also resolves it, but now the problem remains gone even after turning "Clear LCD" on again. So "Clear LCD" seems to reset a certain timing that can get out of sync under some circumstances, like I described.


    Small wishes:

    - The first small wish is actually a simple one. I would like an extra "Picture format" setting for 4:3 programs.

    As most of you will know, sometimes wide screen programs are being transmitted as 4:3 by mistake. This can easily be corrected by using one of the Wide screen settings.
    But the other way around also happens sometimes, when a 4:3 program is being transmitted mistakenly as wide screen. This can not be corrected by any of the current "Picture format" settings, so you are forced to look at a broadened picture. A "4:3" setting would solve this problem.


    - And my final small wish is the return of something like the old "Input source selection" function. I know there isn't a button for that on our remote, but the now empty blue button could be used for this.

    Currently you have to open the home menu, scroll to the desired source and press ok, just to switch between sources.

    A much easier way would be, when pressing the blue button once would swap between the last two selected sources. Pressing it more often would select one of your other sources, in the order in which they were last used. A small information line in the left corner could show the name of the selected source, just like it does when changing the volume.



    I really hope I could be of any help to you, Philips!... And of course, I also hope you will be able to solve these issues, to make an already very good tv even greater!...

    Thanks again in advance, and for those of you who aren't here right now, have a great summer!

    Freddy
    Last edited by Freddy; 02-01-2012 at 02:04 PM.

  2. #2
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    Thumbs up

    I agree!

    Philips, please listen Freddy's advice.

    Adamo

  3. #3
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    I also have an odd one but maybe it is interference from some unknown source.

    I have the tv connected to a pc dvi<->hdmi source and thus no sound and to an analog tv source. Every now and then, when I'm using the hdmi source of the tv the audio from the analog source starts playing. I have to mute the tv sound or select the analog tv source on the tv and then my pc hdmi source again. This can happen several times a day but it is random.

    As to the dimming effect I also suffer from it and as such have the dynamic backlight off on my personal settings which I have to use often since in my country subtitles are the majority and almost only kids programs and documentaries are dubbed. On the pc source the effect is also highly visible in some fullscreen still frames where the simple appearance of the mouse pointer makes the all frame flash as do subtitles.

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    Quote Originally Posted by durtro View Post
    As to the dimming effect I also suffer from it and as such have the dynamic backlight off on my personal settings which I have to use often since in my country subtitles are the majority and almost only kids programs and documentaries are dubbed. On the pc source the effect is also highly visible in some fullscreen still frames where the simple appearance of the mouse pointer makes the all frame flash as do subtitles.
    Try reducing your contrast setting...

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    Quote Originally Posted by petasis View Post
    Try reducing your contrast setting...
    It doesn't help. It appears to be dependent on the image but in the still frame I mentioned I reached 30 contrast, disabled all processing except the dynamic blacklight and still the effect was visible. Was using the natural setting as base which sets contrast to 90. If I disable the dynamic blacklight the effect goes away. It seems that the effect is more obvious in images with little color and color variation, for example grays and browns.

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    What firmware are you using?

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    The last one. I was on 140.25 because internet update in the tv said the firmware was up to date but earlier today I installed firmware 140.39 which I think is the last one and the problem is still there. Backgrounds flicker due to dimming and that effect is especially visible with subtitles but not only with them.

    What happens is that color uniform backgrounds, let's say a gray wall, flicker when other parts of the image change. It is highly visible with subtitles appearing and changing but also happens when changes in the foreground appear like face movement and so on. Some times it isn't that noticeable but other times it is very much.

    Freddy's top post has a link to a thread were the problem is discussed and with samples ready for testing in a tv.

  8. #8
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    I have tested with Freddy's image, and there is no change on the lower right corner (as said). There is of course a change in the area the volume appears.
    But this is how local dimming works. You cannot have a system that suddenly something white appears, causing the LED to produce light, and have no effect at the surrounding area.

    What are your settings?

    Regarding subtitles on movies from external player, there is a solution: don't let them be 100% white, make them 70 or 80 gray instead.

    I am also on a country that everything is subtitled. While I can see the effect in same cases, I think it is not that widespread, its just in some cases.
    And I think that tweaking the setting, may help significantly...

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    Quote Originally Posted by petasis View Post
    I have tested with Freddy's image, and there is no change on the lower right corner (as said). There is of course a change in the area the volume appears.
    I'm not sure if it's a typo, but the bad effect in the static picture test is visible in the lower left corner, not the right as you say. In the moving video test, the one where the subtitles appear, the effect is exactly as described by durtro and many others. The appearance of the subtitles at the bottom of the screen effects the brightness of the entire screen, not just where the subtitles are.

    Quote Originally Posted by petasis View Post
    What are your settings?

    Regarding subtitles on movies from external player, there is a solution: don't let them be 100% white, make them 70 or 80 gray instead.
    This effect can not be changed much (if at all) by changing settings, and while watching tv most of us still can't change the subtitles themselves (nor would it matter much to make them a little less bright; the effect would still be there).

    Quote Originally Posted by petasis View Post
    I am also on a country that everything is subtitled. While I can see the effect in same cases, I think it is not that widespread, its just in some cases.
    Unfortunately it seems a lot more widespread on the 32" PFL9705, whereas on your 46" it indeed seems to be less common... Why that is!?... I don't know.
    Last edited by Freddy; 07-21-2011 at 10:47 AM.

  10. #10
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    I've not tested with Freddy's image because I can see the effect in my own sources. The problem for me is that it doesn't appear to be local dimming in some cases. The area where the dimming occurs is huge in some cases especially when the background is all of the same or of similar color. The appearance of subtitles in the lower part of the screen shouldn't change the picture in the upper part. It should change it only around given subtitles.

    As to being widespread I wouldn't say it is because in some cases it isn't that visible but in a single series episode of 30 minutes, even without subtitles, I can see it a couple of times.

    Quote Originally Posted by petasis View Post
    What are your settings?
    I've been using one of the smart settings for this test. In particular I've been using the natural setting with a changed brightness of 60 instead of 50. I'm open to suggestions but I have tried several settings already.

    Quote Originally Posted by petasis View Post
    Regarding subtitles on movies from external player, there is a solution: don't let them be 100% white, make them 70 or 80 gray instead.
    I mostly use pc sources with a media player and separate sources for subtitles. Rarely use embedded subtitles, however, changing colors is possible with srt subtitles but not desirable with ass subtitles.

    I put two little videos showing what I mean at http://homeo11.durtro.operaunite.com...aring/content/

    The first one is the mouse pointer effect when it appears over the still frame and also the video toolbar effect when it appears at the bottom.

    The second one is the video itself during a little segment where the effect is clearly visible with at least one subtitle.

    Those are worst case scenarios but they do happen and more often that they should.

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    Quote Originally Posted by durtro View Post
    I put two little videos showing what I mean at http://homeo11.durtro.operaunite.com...aring/content/

    The first one is the mouse pointer effect when it appears over the still frame and also the video toolbar effect when it appears at the bottom.

    The second one is the video itself during a little segment where the effect is clearly visible with at least one subtitle.
    Those are very good videos showing this problem!... Especially the first one (MOV00585.MPG) is very clear. Thanks for making them!
    Please post them in the "Dimming problem every time subtitles appear on 32PFL9705" thread as well.

    Philips!?... Please look at his videos, so you know what we're dealing with!... And of course... please fix this bug! It's the last big one, in my opinion.
    Last edited by Freddy; 07-21-2011 at 03:58 PM.

  12. #12
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    What are your settings?

    Try setting contrast to 70, brightness to 50, local dimming to best picture or typical, the sensor to on, and see if the problem persists.
    Why have you raised brightness to 60? Isn't it too much?
    An contrast to 90, isn't too much light?
    What is your 9705 model? The 46" one?

    I think that this is a nice reading: http://www.spearsandmunsil.com/artic...sscontrol.html
    It explains very well what the brightness control does, and how it should be adjusted. There is only a single correct value for each connected device.

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    I used the natural setting as base with only the brightness changed. In that setting dynamic backlight is at standard and the sensor, which I suppose you mean light sensor, is on. I raised brightness because on blacker frames there was too much detail being lost but I do agree that 90 contrast is too much.

    My tv is the 32 inch one.

    Have new video available with those settings "MOV00593.MPG" at the same link as before. The mouse movement at that particular still frame is pretty bad. As said before, this is one of the worst case scenarios and thankfully there are situations were this effect is barely visible or not at all, however, this happens frequently enough to make the use of the dynamic backlight feature, which is one of the selling points of the tv, undesirable.

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    Can you post the image, to check on my 9705?

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    Quote Originally Posted by petasis View Post
    Can you post the image, to check on my 9705?
    Done. Added 3 images to the same link as before. One bmp in tv resolution and two png in video resolution. The images should be available during the day tomorrow. If they're not it is because I'm not running opera in my pc or my pc isn't online at that moment and because the images are served from my pc. They should be up most of the time though.

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