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  1. #1
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    Sort files by name on USB device?

    Hi!

    How can I sort the displayed list of files on a USB drive on my TV? For example if I have movie1.avi, movie2.avi and movie3.avi on my USB drive the TV displays it as:

    - movie2.avi
    - movie1.avi
    - movie3.avi

    Why aren't the files displayed sorted by name?

    I have tried 2 different TVs (32PFL5604H/12 and 46PFL5605H/12) and 2 different USB devices (Kingston DT-100 4GB pendrive and Transcend StoreJet 320GB 2,5" external HDD), I always get the same results (eg. unsorted list of the files and/or directories).

    This has been bugging me for months now.


    EDIT: both TVs have the latest firmware.

  2. #2
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    Hi,

    see the following workaround and description: http://www.supportforum.philips.com/...orting-via-USB

    Toengel@Alex

    PS: try the forum search first ;-)

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toengel View Post
    Hi,

    see the following workaround and description: http://www.supportforum.philips.com/...orting-via-USB

    Toengel@Alex

    PS: try the forum search first ;-)
    Hi!

    Thank you for the answer, but unfortunately that is not a solution, it's just bullsh*t. Most of the time I copy new files on my USB drive, remove old files, etc... And Philips expects me to clear my 320GB HDD every time completely if I want to copy a new movie onto it? Thanks, but no thanks.

    I was a Philips fan before, but this was the last time I bought something bearing the name Philips. The 46pfl5605 can't play DTS (because Philips won't license it?!?!?!), it doesn't know anything about subtitles (not even the 2 most common formats: srt and sub) and can't display the files in correct order (the TV runs Linux, do an "ls -la" for God's sake, it sorts automatically!).

    I'm extremely disappointed in Philips.

  4. #4
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    Drunkenm, I don't think the workaround is "just b.s." Windows stores files in the old DOS format, in which if you delete the 3rd file and move a new file to the folder, it goes into that hole in slot number 3. The fact that you see them in alphabetical order is value added by Windows, and depends on character sets and national languages. If Philips tried to do it, they wouldn't match your PC's locale in all cases. (Nor will Linux!)

    It would be nice if Philips tried to alphabetize for simple character sets such as U.S.ASCII. I recently read the user's manual for a dashboard stereo for my next car, which disclosed that playing MP3s sequentially uses a sequence that "will depend on your operating system." Windows, however, gives me no command to sort the files on disk to have the same sequence that Windows is using to display them.

    The workaround has helpful information. I knew that moving files with the mouse didn't change the DOS order; I didn't know that using Copy then Paste sorts them first. Don't take it out on the company...trying to make a perfect product means it never gets released.

  5. #5
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    Hi Spike,

    first off, thanks for your answer - even if I don't agree with it :P

    Secondly: what are you talking about DOS? DOS died out more than 10 years ago. On my USB HDD I'm using NTFS, on my pendrive FAT32 (but I could just as easily use ext3 or ReiserFS). Neither one has anything to do with DOS (also, there is no such thing as "DOS format", do you mean FAT16?). The TV uses some kind of minimalistic Linux with Kernel 2.4 and maybe SquashFS (I'm guessing this last one). So I don't really understand your explanation.

    Yes, if I delete files from my device space gets freed up, and yes, if I put something else on it it will be put in the free space. But not even that is entirely correct. Every filesystem has it's own method of storing files on a device physically and on the disk header! (Example: NTFS -> fragmentation, ext2/3 using extenst instead of blocks, the inode table...).

    I don't want a perfect product, but I do expect some very basic functionality from a TV that costs 700EUR. Also, I don't need my TV to match my PC's character set. Like you said, an *extremely* simple sort would be enough ("ls -l" which sorts alphabetically by default). Also, the TV already has a locale -> the language settings (display language of the menus). It would be very easy to connect this setting with a character table for sorting.

    Also, I never use a mouse to copy my files, I have Total Commander. I remember exactly copying a whole directory full of files (like series.s01e01.avi to series.s01.e16.avi) with Total Commander ("F5") and they still get messed up - because of the fragmented free space available on the drive.

    Maybe the sort is an added feature in Windows, but so is it in every OS in the world (starting with the C64 through all Linuxes and mobile devices like Android, Windows Phone, BB and iOS...). Philips TVs are the only devices I know which don't have this "feature".

    My friend has a 32" Samsung LCD from 2009 which can sort files in 8 different ways (by name, size, type, directories first, etc...) and knows the most common subtitle formats and can even decode DTS.

    Please don't tell me that you know of anybody, who empties his whole 500GB USB HDD and copies everything back file by file (or directory by directory) just to add a new movie.

    Therefore my point stands, the workaround is b.s.! Philips is simply lazy and all their TV's firmware s*ck.

  6. #6
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    Yes, Drunkenm; by "the old DOS format" I was referring to the FAT16 directory. By "value added" I meant that sorting the displayed list of files on an FAT16 device is extra computing done in Windows and other OS's. (I don't care about extents and fragmentation but only the order of filenames in the directory.)

    You might not be wiping the entire disk but just creating an already-sorted directory, then deleting the original files, to see the directory sorted on your TV. I don't disagree with your disappointment that this step would be necessary in a unit costing US$1,015. The polemics, however, might not be the best way to get them to revise the firmware. Cheers.

  7. #7
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    Hi,

    don't forget that the proposed solution is a WORKAROUND. I'm confident that Philips will work on a REAL solution...

    Toengel@Alex

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    Hi all,

    The 1st step "clear memory stick" is not necessary for this workaround, I have removed the sentence.
    Just create a new directory and use CTRL+C and CTRL+V to copy/paste the files.

    Sorry for any confusion.

    Regards,
    JuAn
    Last edited by Philips; 09-30-2011 at 07:15 AM.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Philips View Post
    Hi all,

    The 1st step "clear memory stick" is not necessary for this workaround, I have removed the sentence.
    Just create a new directory and use CTRL+C and CTRL+V to copy/paste the files.

    Sorry for any confusion.

    Regards,
    JuAn
    Hi,

    Thanks, but a workaround is still a workaround - which is in my opinion still b.s.'ing the customer. The Samsung LE46C650 costs *exactly* the same as the Philips 46PFL5605 and has twice as many features (including LAN, WiFi, sorting in 8 different ways, a browser, YouTube app, DTS encoding, subtitles, etc...). I already tested my friends 32" Samsung (also a 6-Series) and the difference is bigger than the Grand Canyon.

    I'm gonna sell my Philips TV and get the Samsung.

    Bye-bye Philips!

    I already regret recommending you to my other friend who has bought the same TV as me and is limited in the same way...


    P.S.: buy a Samsung TV and check out the firmware. Maybe even you can learn something from it.
    Last edited by drunkenm; 09-30-2011 at 03:07 PM. Reason: Corrected a typo.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by drunkenm View Post
    I already regret recommending you to my other friend who has bought the same TV as me and is limited in the same way...
    P.S.: buy a Samsung TV and check out the firmware. Maybe even you can learn something from it.
    Indeed you recommended Philips to your friend, so I understand that at first you liked your Philips TV, at least until you discovered that they, sadly, do not add new features to "old" TVs. Well, I think the point is: do Samsung, LG, Panasonic, Sony, etc. add new features to their already sold TVs? I don't mean spectacular new features, but very basic ones, like subtitle support, transparent now/next info, and so on, as many times requested to Philips from this forum...
    Do anyone know if Samsung and others update their firmware by adding new features? If so, and if Philips continue not to offer new features by firmware update, I will not buy anymore Philips TVs (and maybe other Philips products)

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by pistoiaa View Post
    Indeed you recommended Philips to your friend, so I understand that at first you liked your Philips TV, at least until you discovered that they, sadly, do not add new features to "old" TVs. Well, I think the point is: do Samsung, LG, Panasonic, Sony, etc. add new features to their already sold TVs? I don't mean spectacular new features, but very basic ones, like subtitle support, transparent now/next info, and so on, as many times requested to Philips from this forum...
    Do anyone know if Samsung and others update their firmware by adding new features? If so, and if Philips continue not to offer new features by firmware update, I will not buy anymore Philips TVs (and maybe other Philips products)
    Hi!

    Both TVs are 2010 models, so I grant you that they are not required to add new features. But as you said, sorting is a basic feature which should have been in the initial release of the firmware. My point is, that Samsung had all the features mentioned by me already in their original firmware release. Maybe they added some smaller stuff later, but sorting, DTS, subtitles, YouTube were there in the very first release.

    And of course both companies keep updating their 2010 models, which is great. But since these upgrades are mostly bugfixes (like the TV shutting down...) I would expect them to do so. The latest FW-Upgrade for the 46PFL5605 was on 27/07/2011 - and judging by the release log the didn't add a new feature since a year ago. Only bugfixes, mostly some operator or country dependent.

    Unfortunately I didn't find the release notes for the Samsung LE46C650 (if somebody can point me to it, I would appreciate it), but their last firmware release was on 17/09/2011. So I can't tell you if they added any new features recently, but I'm guessing they also make only bugfixes, just like virtually anybody else.

    In conclusion, I'd expected these features included in the very first (or first few) firmware version.


    P.S.: about recommending: I bought the TV end of June (somewhere around June 26th) and recommended it to my friend 2-3 weeks later. I didn't use the TV until then too much, I mainly played PS2 and GameCube on it, occasionally a movie or series from pendrive. It didn't bother me at that time, because I usually have very few files on my pendrive. But lately I have been watching in much much more (also instead of the pendrive I'm using a USB HDD with lots of files and directories) and now it bugs the hell out of me. I didn't even notice the lack of DTS support until a few weeks ago when I actually ran into a movie with DTS sound. So after 3 months of "testing" I really began hating this TV...

  12. #12
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    I agree.

    @Philips: Please, fixing this sort order issue is really important.

    Because this problem occurs when friends come to visit we want to watch holiday pictures (and MJPEG videos!), and it's quite embarrassing to say "sorry, my Philips TV messes up the order".

    So this bug is something a lot of people will associate with Philips TVs, even if they don't own one.

    They will remember
    - magnificent picture quality,
    - but doesn't play camera videos and
    - shows pictures in (partly) wrong order.

    I'd give this bug a 12 out of 10 importance, because this is noticable to many potential Philips TV buyers ;-)

    Thank you for your attention ;-)

    Matthias

  13. #13
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    bump.

    I'm quite worried I haven't heard from Philips yet on this bug. Are there plans to fix it for the 2010 and 2011 TVs?

    I think, watching pictures from USB-Stick/HDD directly on the TV is one of the important points of buying a new TV. And if this feature doesn't work reliably, it leaves a very bad taste.

    Personally, I like the Ambilight, so for me, there was no alternative, but when friends asked me what TV I would buy, and I mentioned the sorting bug, you can probably imagine what they said :-|.

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    I would advise your friends to buy a TV based on its picture quality. Media capabilities can be fixed instantly with a device that nowadays costs < 100 euros.
    But the picture quality of the TV bought will never change.

  15. #15
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    I fully agree, and I also told them that and they said they will compare the picture quality in the shop.

    Both of them bought a Samsung.
    It seems, for them, the difference was not visible or not large enough to compensate for the software.
    For one of them, the reason to take the Samsung was the number of supported video formats and the different ways to sort pictures on USB and its thumbnail overview.

    Of course, I can't generalize on that - this is only an observation of two (technically interested) friends - still I'm worried that Philips will loose to Samsung because of this, despite the better picture quality.

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