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Topic: 46pfl9706

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  1. #31
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    DSE

    Hello all,
    given zlatko's request I thought it was time to join the party....
    I got a 46PFL9706 in January and agree with all that DSE is visible on pans on skiing/football, but in general the picture quality and moth-eye just about make up for it on my set, but I do worry that my acceptance is starting to diminish. My dealer actually sent me another set to see if there was any improvement (superb service!), but the second one was MUCH worse. The positions where you will see DSE are actually visible even if you display a static white .jpg file as very slight brightness variations (on good sets) or horrendous variations on bad ones! From my experience (more obvious on the BAD TV) the main problems are caused by two rectangular areas symmetrical around the centre line of the TV (almost central in the left and right halves of the screen) these appear to consist of 7x7blocks of the LED matrix having different brightness on alternate "vertical stripes" with the outer ones (i.e. stripes 1 and 7) the most pronounced. I have pictures if anyone is interested!

  2. #32
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    You seem to have a keen eye for this problem, so... yes, I think we are all very interested in seeing your pictures. Especially the fact that you say it is the backlight that's causing the problem and not the panel itself is something Philips could work with!... It might even be possible to "repair" it then, instead of just getting a new one, hoping it will be better...

  3. #33
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    @jd1
    Thank you for confirming the issue! Also your comment is very valuable as it shows that the issue varies from set to set, but is predominantly present on all sets and exchanges till you get a set with tolerable amount of DSE is hard path to take. Also many dealer/service centers will not offer exchange, but panel swap.
    Please post your photos here so other users and Philips mods can have a look. I have tried to capture DSE on image, but on my screen it is barely visible on static picture and hard to capture on movie when orizontal panning as well.
    Otherwise I completely agree with you - PQ is fantastic and I really like my 9606. I do not want to get another brand TV. I hope Philips will provide us a solution to this or upgrade path to newer DSE-free TV sets. I would love to get a 60" Philips screen as they were not available in 2012

  4. #34
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    Hi Guys, sorry for the delay. I'm attaching two images - one for the "good" TV and one for the "bad" one! These are taken with the SAME white.jpg image (a computer generated white screen!) being displayed (notice on the bad one I didn't even bother taking the screen protector off since it was so much worse! The easiest way to see where you will notice DSE is to open these pictures on a PC viewer, shrink the window, grab it with the mouse and move it around - your eye/brain will then make it obvious where it is!Click image for larger version. 

Name:	DSE_goodpanel1.jpg 
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ID:	1101Click image for larger version. 

Name:	DSE_badpanel1.jpg 
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ID:	1102. I have more pictures as well....

  5. #35
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    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	white.JPG 
Views:	97 
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ID:	1103Also if you want to try it yourself, here is the original image white.jpg that I made to test with (I assume you can grab it from here?). I put this image on a USB stick, stuck that in the TV, displayed the image, then took the photos of it. The "put resulting photo of TV screen on PC and shake" reproduces the effect of how much better your eyes/brain are at distinguishing brightness variation in "moving" objects versus stationary ones (I think?). For my current TV (the "good" one), I can barely notice the variation on the static image on the screen (and hence where the DSE appears on pans) but as soon as I move the picture I have taken it is obvious.

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    Are you sure this effect is not introduced in the processing of the moving image? You should measure the light intensity on your screen in different places and see. I have tried with a profesional test disk and got perfect pictures in all grey shades and no problem with colours either. However I found another "home" made test DVD which made it look quite cloudy with uneven areas of shade. I have only once seen a steady picture with the banding effect on my set. I streamed this recording to all my TVs and got exactly the same DSE regardless screen size or TV brand. However, on moving pictures I find the DSE is worse than on other sets.


    DSE is an issue manifesting in two different ways - vertical stripes (of same width) or dirty clouds. The other issue I still have is that a lot of broadcasts have some rapid picture movements which I attribute to the SP of the SW. No doubt this is an issue on all flat screens but just seems worse with this TV.
    Last edited by nuri58; 05-14-2012 at 11:47 AM.

  7. #37
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    Hi Nuri58 - The images are taken with the TV displaying a static JPG image, so the processing should be doing nothing. Here is a processed photo of the screen displaying the white.jpg static image processed to show the intensity gradient of the panel (greatly exagerrated!). The main area I notice DSE on moving images is where the lighter vertical stripe in the middle of the "darker cloud" on the right hand side of the screen, hence my conclusion. The "cloudy area" shows the uneven intensity of the display that is unnoticeable on a static image for the eye, but the main cause of DSE IMHO is how rapidly the intensity changes across the screen.
    I guess the main question is does the position if the DSE change with different moving images - for me it doesn't, so that makes me believe that it is not a processing artifact, but a screen/panel issue.Click image for larger version. 

Name:	good_grad.jpg 
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ID:	1110

  8. #38
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    @jd1
    Thank you for the pics buddy! I will make my own with white background soon. Looks my panel is similar to yours in regards to DSE. May be slightly worse - it is hard to judge. But the "bad" one on your pics is really terrible!
    An user in Russian forum board is awaiting panel change due to DSE - he will let us know what is the result of it.
    I think you wont mind me to use your photos as examples?

    @nuri58
    DSE we notice is NOT related to movement/processing in any way. Stripes of different shade are there in static image, always at the same place, exactly same shape. When panning starts they remain untouched, only become easier noticeable.

    @Philips-mods
    What is the reason for posts in this thread requiring moderator approval? I don't think we discuss something "illegal"? Nor we state false information?

    I have attached an image of my panel with light-grey background. Have in mind that my TV is 52PFL9606, not the 9706(as the thread suggests), but screen should be the same with only difference being the MothEye filter on 9706.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	DSE_panel_9606H.jpg 
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ID:	1112
    Last edited by zlatko; 05-18-2012 at 09:31 AM.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by jd1 View Post
    Hi Nuri58 - The images are taken with the TV displaying a static JPG image, so the processing should be doing nothing. Here is a processed photo of the screen displaying the white.jpg static image processed to show the intensity gradient of the panel (greatly exagerrated!). The main area I notice DSE on moving images is where the lighter vertical stripe in the middle of the "darker cloud" on the right hand side of the screen, hence my conclusion. The "cloudy area" shows the uneven intensity of the display that is unnoticeable on a static image for the eye, but the main cause of DSE IMHO is how rapidly the intensity changes across the screen.
    I guess the main question is does the position if the DSE change with different moving images - for me it doesn't, so that makes me believe that it is not a processing artifact, but a screen/panel issue.Click image for larger version. 

Name:	good_grad.jpg 
Views:	214 
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ID:	1110
    There are two issues - the camera - what does it add and as you move the image on a computer surely the computer is begining to make calculations - what does taht add? Have you tried to redo your experiment with the image generated on other TVs or on the computer and looked at the result? For the clouding I note quite uneven backlight on any TV set and do find other sets worse in this respect. But still DSE is an issue.

  10. #40
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    @nuri58
    DSE we are discussing is present on static or moving image, always the same stripes, at same positions, same shape, irrelevant of the material, HW source, connection type, picture settings on TV or source output settings.
    So there is no need to delve into processing here.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by zlatko View Post
    @nuri58
    DSE we are discussing is present on static or moving image, always the same stripes, at same positions, same shape, irrelevant of the material, HW source, connection type, picture settings on TV or source output settings.
    So there is no need to delve into processing here.
    I have already written here and I confirm. I see the same problems of DSE. same vertical strips at the same places ... and still no solution found ..

  12. #42
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    Same problems, contacted Philips several times, been contacted by them saying they add acknowledged the issue but a replacement could not by made as the problem would probably be still there and a change to a newer model was also not possible since there is none yet, so I should wait. Been waiting for a month, will probably return the tv. The only reason I havent yet is that pass that issue, I think its a fantastic tv, but for its price, it should not have this kind of issues! Seriously looking into the new vt50 by panasonic.

  13. #43
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    @Miklaszewski
    What country is that? So Philips there is acknowledging DSE?! And saying panel change wont help? I wonder what can be solution for us owners of 9X06 models? Upgrade to 2012 models?

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    Hello All

    I have the same problem with my 46PFL9706H.

    Especially on light color backgounds like: light green, light blue and white.

    It becomes really an issue when you watch socces, when the camera moves from left to right and vv.
    It looks like you watching through a dirty camera lens.

    Philips did sent someone from Technorep. He acknowledged the banding but also said that he had see cases far more worse and that replacing the panel might not improve the picture quality. Appearantly it is a design issue?!

    At the same time I experience a "ghost"effect when you switch local dimming on.

    So I have a 2500 Euro TV of which I have to switch off an important feature while I can't fix the other issue.

    On the phone, the Philips support desk said, this is within the Philips spec's, and if I was not satisfied I should go back to the store where I bought the TV to complain.

    I said how can they solve the issue if this is a "design" issue from Philips. But no solution was offered. As a long time Philips TV users, I am deeptly disappointed about the service.

    They promise in their marketimg a great product where even my much cheaper 32PFL7605 does not show any banding !!!

    Next step is going back to the store but I already feel left in the cold....... to be continued.

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    @frankie
    Thanks for sharing!
    I think we will see more such reports coming here in next weeks as Euro 2012 football championship just kicked-off and people who bought Philips premium TV sets in order to enjoy it will for sure notice the annoying DSE when they watch so many football games.
    I think it is time for Philips to issue some kind of statement about this!

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