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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Philips View Post
    Dear Bluevoice,

    Don't think that nothing has been done in the last months. There were extensive investigations by the HTS team and TV team (although for the outside world it often does not looks that way).
    I did not say that "you must wait a few weeks more until we start the investigations". Please read carefully. I clearly indicated "From our investigations sofar...", and I also indicated the reason for the delay.
    I'm really sorry to dissapoint you, but I want to be clear.

    Regards,
    JuAn
    Hi JuAn,

    The Philips technical service providers here in the Netherlands, both Technorep and E-care told me that because of 'only' a few complaints on this issue, Philips does not consider this problem a high priority and they don't have the confidence that Philips is going to provide a solution on a short term, if ever.

    As it seems to me, Philips is not interested in making their products work together and is not interested in what customers think or how they use products and certainly not providing real solutions. What Philips is really interested about, in my opinion, is how to make quick wins, get our money out of our pockets and leave us, customers with our "imaginary problems" out in the cold. Your saying that Philips is now focusing on the 2012 TV lineup release only enhances this asumption. How can Philips move on working to a new series if serious problems with the 2011 lineup have not been fully solved? Don't you read posts about PNM always ON bug, local dimming problems, vertical banding, etc.?

    All I hear is, please wait some more... You expect me to come back after a few years, after the TV lineup has matured and the real bugs have been solved? I don't think so!

    It's a shame that Philips now uses its customers as beta testers, and provides TV's that do not work as advertised. I bought a TV, not a Microsoft PC with Windows 3.1 that if full of bugs and needs patching. I spent lot of money on this TV and I worked hard for the money and I'm not going to buy a new TV next year because Philips miraculosly solved all problems using my time and my feedback!!! Maybe users should gather their complaints and start a lawsuit on this.

    In the last 7 month, I was without tv for 2 weeks and also without HTS for other 2 weeks. So during 1 month out of 7 I was not able to use those products because of issues for which Philips is responsible. I also filed an official complaint but nobody seems to care. I received nothing to date.

    The technical service providers visited me 8 times, but besides of swapping SSB boards and restoring some functionality and losing other functionality, they just raised their shoulders and said they've agnowledged the problem but have no clue how to solve it.

    So how do you expect me to trust Philips and future products ever again?
    Last edited by bluevoice; 05-08-2012 at 03:10 PM.

  2. #47
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    Last thing I wanted to say, maybe I should really give up on Philips and take my money back as the technical service provider suggested and move to another brand.

    This is what I decided to do, I'm going to be reasonable again and give Philips 1 more month of my time to do its 'final' investigation, if nothing conclusive comes out of this by 8 June 2012, I'll take my money back, and will not look back for this brand ever again. I'll also advise anyone I know not to buy a Philips TV and become a Philips betatester ever.

  3. #48
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    Back on the subject now, I believe I know what is causing the reboots of the tv. After much observation, I believe it is the sound output through HDMI CEC from the HTS that is causing this. This is why the TV never crashes at the very first moment the HTS starts but moments later when HTS starts outputting sound. Somehow the TV does not like the sound output it gets through HDMI CEC protocol and does a safety shut down of the main processor to protect it form external influences.

    Does this make any sense to you?

  4. #49
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    Hi,

    HDMI CEC = Easylink
    HDMI ARC = Audio Returen Channel

    I think you mean the ARC ;-)

    Toengel@Alex

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toengel View Post
    Hi,

    HDMI CEC = Easylink
    HDMI ARC = Audio Returen Channel

    I think you mean the ARC ;-)

    Toengel@Alex
    @Alex: I am familiar with those definitions.

    I'm not sure what exactly happens, but it's definitely not the HDMI ARC because reboots also happen if I connect the HTS to a different HDMI port on the TV (i.e. HDMI2, HDMI3 or HDMI side). On the TV only HDMI1 is ARC.

    I noticed that when Easylink (HDMI CEC) is enabled on the TV, there is a point where the TV receives an input signal through Easylink that the TV doesn't like and tries to protect its components by shutting down the system. A reboot is the result of this shutting down. It could be related to the Easylink handshake, that would explain the dissapearance of all HTS Easylink activities icons in the TV menu after reboot.

    This point:

    1) is not the first second that you turn on the HTS but somewhat later during the startup proces of the HTS
    2) is sometimes the moment you switch to a HTS function from the TV (the HTS had been on for some time)
    3) is sometimes the moment you change to another function (i.e. Radio) on the HTS
    4) is the moment that you want to watch a video file on a USB stick attached to the HTS, and press play

    I think it could be the combination of both ARC and Easylink because the moment of reboot almost always coincides with the moment the TV should switch to the external amplifier in the HTS.

    So the sequence is:

    Easylink is on and tells the TV to switch the audio to the HTS speakers (HDMI CEC). The HTS starts and at the moment the HDMI ARC should do its functions and to reroute the sound to the HTS something happens that triggers the reset. This is when watching a TV broadcast.

    The weird thing is that this also happens when you turn on the TV, switch it to the HDMI1 (where the HTS is connected to) then start HTS (and hope TV doesn't reboot), then if I put a USB stick with a movie on it, the file browser of the HTS shows on screen, I can select the video but as soon as I press play the TV reboots.

  6. #51
    DerShortyy
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluevoice View Post
    Last thing I wanted to say, maybe I should really give up on Philips and take my money back as the technical service provider suggested and move to another brand.

    This is what I decided to do, I'm going to be reasonable again and give Philips 1 more month of my time to do its 'final' investigation, if nothing conclusive comes out of this by 8 June 2012, I'll take my money back, and will not look back for this brand ever again. I'll also advise anyone I know not to buy a Philips TV and become a Philips betatester ever.
    Hi Blue,

    please do yourself a favour and bring your devices back to retailer. On the one hand i can understand you: you are absolutly right in expecting working devices. On the other hand i can understand philips too: There seems to be one out of 1000 devices which act like you described maybe because they were produced on Mondays. As they (philips) stated before, they can not reproduce the issue. I guess when you get two new devices there won´t be such problems.
    Don´t get me wrong, i´m fully on your side but i would not have let this torture went over me... after second attempt of "repairing" i would have sent them back to retailer... Don´t let you be abused to be a BETA Tester, it is not your job, you don´t get paid for this so please do yourself a favour and let it go...!

    These are just my 2Cents
    Best Regards

  7. #52
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    Hi,

    I was confused cause you wrote "sound output through HDMI CEC"...

    Toengel@Alex

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by DerShortyy View Post
    Hi Blue,

    please do yourself a favour and bring your devices back to retailer.
    I purchased the devices directly from the Philips Online Shop. I talked to them like 10 times now but they are not that easy with exchanges. They told me a service provider must have visited me for at least 4 times before they decide to offer another solution.

    Quote Originally Posted by DerShortyy View Post
    On the one hand i can understand you: you are absolutly right in expecting working devices.
    Yes despite this issue that's ruining everything, the TV is really beautifull, I love the picture and the 21:9 aspect and also the 3D is fenomenal. Too bad the user experience is such a pain.

    Quote Originally Posted by DerShortyy View Post
    On the other hand i can understand philips too: There seems to be one out of 1000 devices which act like you described maybe because they were produced on Mondays.
    Not sure about this as there are more users complaining about this issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by DerShortyy View Post
    As they (philips) stated before, they can not reproduce the issue.
    They tested the HTS with a 2010 TV, and concluded it works fine on a 2011 TV! They never took the time to look at the TV reboot log.

    Quote Originally Posted by DerShortyy View Post
    I guess when you get two new devices there won´t be such problems.
    I've asked the Philips Online Shop to give me 2 new devices but they simply won't do it!

    Quote Originally Posted by DerShortyy View Post
    Don´t get me wrong, i´m fully on your side but i would not have let this torture went over me... after second attempt of "repairing" i would have sent them back to retailer... Don´t let you be abused to be a BETA Tester, it is not your job, you don´t get paid for this so please do yourself a favour and let it go...!
    You are totally right and I will let it go and move on to another brand after 8th of June. Philips still has one final chance to properly solve this one way or another.

  9. #54
    DerShortyy
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluevoice View Post
    I purchased the devices directly from the Philips Online Shop. I talked to them like 10 times now but they are not that easy with exchanges. They told me a service provider must have visited me for at least 4 times before they decide to offer another solution.
    I don´t know the law in the Netherlands, but if a 4 time repairing opportunity is by law, then let them come 4 times. 2 Times aou´ve already reached... and until the 4th time is reached, the new 2012 range has been rolled out completly, maybe you have better luck with it. There will be also a new "within 3 days" repair and swap it" service, so you won´t be without devices for about two weeks...

  10. #55
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    I am with you bluevoice.

    From me Philips gets some more time. Lets say a month from now. So 23 June 2012.
    If the problem then is not fixed by firmware update, my TV and the HTS will be returned to the dealer. And I will move to another manufacturer.
    The only feature I will realy miss is the Ambilight. Not other manufacurer has this. But if other functions are working fine, so I have no problem with this.

  11. #56
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    Today I sent an email to the Norwegian Consumer Counsil asking about my rights in this case.

    I have logged the case at Philips in january and now 6 months later I have asked Philips for an update. They have promised me an asnwer and escalation but then they have gone quiet. I think I have approached the support center 4-5 times during this period in addition to this forum. My patience is about to end soon.

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Espen000 View Post
    Today I sent an email to the Norwegian Consumer Counsil asking about my rights in this case.

    I have logged the case at Philips in january and now 6 months later I have asked Philips for an update. They have promised me an asnwer and escalation but then they have gone quiet. I think I have approached the support center 4-5 times during this period in addition to this forum. My patience is about to end soon.
    @Espen000: do you have the same problems I described in this thread too? What TV model do you own?

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    Quote Originally Posted by bluevoice View Post
    @Espen000: do you have the same problems I described in this thread too? What TV model do you own?
    Sorry,

    I was supposed to post that in the firmware update thread..

  14. #59
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    Update (now with a different 2011 TV)

    @ Philips - Remko, Philips - JuAn, Philips - Thomas, Philips - QK:

    I got my Philips Cinema Gold replaced by a brand new Philips Cinema Platinum (58PFL9956H/12). I tested the configuration (HTS + new TV) with this new TV. The problem is still there. My brand new Philips TV still reboots when used in combination with a Philips HTS.

    I can still 100% reproduce the reboot by going to the TV menu and pressing on the HTS-Radio icon. 9 out of 10 times screen and ambilight go on black, white Philips logo is shown on the TV, TV needs 40 seconds to reboot.

    After reboot all HTS Easylink entries are gone from the TV menu, TV link to HTS is broken, Easylink does not work. Only a cold restart of the TV (by button) and disabling Easylink and re-enabling Easylink helps to get all HTS icons back in the TV menu.

    The resets still occur like I said before:

    Quote Originally Posted by me
    The moment the reboot occurs:

    1) is not the first second that you turn on the HTS but somewhat later during the startup proces of the HTS
    2) is sometimes the moment you switch to a HTS function from the TV (the HTS had been on for some time)
    3) is sometimes the moment you change to another function (i.e. Radio) on the HTS
    4) is the moment that you want to watch a video file on a USB stick attached to the HTS, and press play
    According to what I've been experiencing lately, it seems that the reboots occur more if the Easylink setting for TV speakers is set to Easylink Autostart instead of just Easylink.

    Seems that Philips combines HDMI - CEC and HDMI - ARC protocol in this Easylink function. That is the only explanation why the sound setting can be found in the Easylink menu.

    It still looks like a sound issue to me, when the TV gets a sound input from HTS, TV does not like that and shuts down.

    @ Philips moderators: could you tell me if the investigation started allready and if there is any progress on this issue?
    Last edited by bluevoice; 06-05-2012 at 08:35 AM.

  15. #60
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    I still have my 40PFL9606. I was still waiting for a new firmware release. Since yesterday it is still there. I must confirm, it brings good improvements to the TV. But in the issue discussed here, nothing is done.

    The behaviour of my TV changed since 14.97 firmware. I do no longer get the entries from the HTS in the TVs menu. There is still only one entry for the HTS. This would be OK for me. But sometimes the TV goes to a reboot loop when switching to the HTS. Then it shows the picture of the HTS for some seconds and then it reboots. After reboot the same happens again and again. To end the loop, I have to switch both devices off and back on.

    Mostly, after such a reboot loop, the HTS entry in the TVs menu is gone and there is an additional Scenea entry with no function. I can get back to the normals menu entrys by disconnecting both devices completely from power and wait some minutes.

    Did anyone other notice such changes in the behaviour?

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