52PFL9606 screen inhomogeneity

[zlatko]

@petasis
It is very hard to capture it, on still shot - impossible. You got to have a panning camera shot with light homogenous colored background so you are able to see that the bands are actually not part of the picture, but onscreen defect. And even then most capturing devices will not be good enough to give the viewer opportunity to notice DSE.

PS. Can you give links to SONY/Samsung threads with discussion about "crest effect"?

[petasis]

Yes, but they are in Greek. I also misspelled the sony name, is "crease effect".
I have found this in English: http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/sony-...1107011261.htm

Regarding samsung, just today an owner asked what are these vertical bars (or "columns") he sees during footbal matches, on a 3-year old samsung model:

http://translate.google.gr/translate?sl=el&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=el&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.avclub.gr%2Ff orum%2Fshowthread.php%2F42778-Samsung-B650-LCD-Reviews-%CE%95%CE%BD%CF%84%CF%85%CF%80%CF%8E%CF%83%CE%B5%C E%B9%CF%82-%CE%A3%CF%87%CF%8C%CE%BB%CE%B9%CE%B1%3Fp%3D1056385 642%26viewfull%3D1%23ποςτ1056385642

(The translation is bad, its the 3rd post on the page)

[zlatko]

@petasis
Thanks man!I was in dilemma between 9606 and SONY 920, bought Philips because of the Ambilight and matte screen. Looks like 920 has an DSE of its own, at least SONY is acknowledging and investigating, when Philips is burring its head in the sand.

[petasis]

Everybody (unfortunately) is burring its head in the sand. It has been observed in Philips, Sony, Samsung TVs, and I believe also in other brands, but there are not many users to learn about it. There is not a single piece of information about why this is happening, so as to seek a solution.

Regarding the 920, I would have also chosen 9606 over it. Not that the 920 is a bad TV, but its local dimming is lesser. Not as in fewer zones (although the 920 has much fewer zones), but as a dimming effect. It is more "subtle" in 920, which gives an edge in reviews (i.e. smoother gamma), but less contrast.
If you decide to go the local dimming way, why not with a device which takes full advantage of it (with an ANSI contrast of more than 6000:1), instead of a "mild" one, which will give you around 4000:1, comparable with top plasma devices?

[zlatko]

@petasis
Indeed. And the matte screen on 9606(although not Motheye as in 9706) is a BIG advantage for me over 920 shiny glass.
I am in contact with local Philips service care in regards with DSE. Bumped into a very knowledgeable and supportive engineer, he has escalated the issue to Philips over seeing 2 9706 and mine 9606 with DSE.
So far Philips advice was "Turn off Dynamic backlight and look if issue still there". Which was the first thing I didi when I notice DSE 3 months ago, first day of having TV set home. Anyway we returned the result and now waiting.
I didn't want to go "panel change" road, but now if that is what Philips suggests I will do it, solely because of this guy. He promised to order panel, the when it has arrived to bring my TV to him, change panel in an hour, test together and bring my TV back home same day.

[petasis]

To say the truth, I wouldn't go that way. I have an 9705, I saw this effect, I said ok, the model has this. I see it sometimes in footbal, and skies. Not that frequent. Should I change my panel? I decided no...

The strange thing with internet, is that you can find all sorts of information. My 9705 was a really early model (I am the first customer in Greece of that model), and when we realised how bad the 3D was, I read tons of speculation on the net. Users comparing serials, weeks of manufacture, and user "opinions" about how "perfect" their 3D was, after a certain week.

So, they drew lines, buy a model after that date, change your panel, change your board...

Do you think anything changed in their TVs? I don't think so. And few of them, didn't like their new panels, or its installation.

My opinion is that you have observe these lines, you have to decide how much it bothers you. Since you complained about display problems on your TV, the first reaction of service will be to change your panel. But I am not so sure if the new panel is the solution. You may end up torturing your TV for no reason.

But this is just my opinion, which may be totally useless...

(I don't want to mention that your TV is calibrated from the factory with its original panel, and I doubt if the service has the expensive equipment to redo this adjustment. You will end up with some reasonable - but default - values).

[zlatko]

@petasis
Thank you for the opinion!
As I wrote - we are still in process of escalating this issue with local Philips care. Together with engineer we agreed that it is stupid to change panel if the new one will for sure have the same issue. Neither me, nor he have seen 9706 or 9606 without DSE.
Actually yesterday over phone he told me that Philips replied positively that there IS an issue with 9706 panels they are aware of, but they have no reports for 52PFL9606 so far.
I haven't thought about TV being calibrated with the actual panel - that alone can put me off change UNLESS I am sure I will get "DSE free" panel fitted.

PS. May be manufacturers must add a sticker "DSE free" to all other "Full HD 3D", "Smart TV" stuff!

[zlatko]

Update: Today I visited local Philips repair service where they have 9706 with DSE. There was e-mail exchange between repair service and Philips, it mentioned "undergoing investigation on banding issues on 9706 Sharp panels". So there is something going on, but how it will be resolved - we have yet to see.
Still no such investigation on 52" sharp panels in 9606, as they haven't had complains so far. So please fellow owner of 52PFL9606 with DSE - do complain to Philips either directly or through you local repair services!

@petasis
I have learned another point against panel change - the panels installed for such changes are not always new ones, but refurbished. When repair service changes your (faulty)panel it is returned to Philips and they return it to manufacturer(Sharp in this case). Sharp is repairing the panels and return them to Philips, which uses them for exchange again. So it is russian roulette if you will get new one or refurbished.

[petasis]

I am not sure a panel can be "repaired"...

Regarding DSE, I would examine the LCD overdrive algorithm, if I was Philips...
(Which may not be controlled by Philips at all, but by the Sharp board that drives the panel).

[zlatko]

@petasis
I suppose "repaired" not as means of LCD matrix, but some electronic components, controllers etc.
But repair engineer clearly said he had received from Philips panels as spare parts that are "refurbished".
It is pity you are not Philips, 'cause they do not want to move a finger even to investigate the DSE reports.

[Dimovey]

I confirm DSE issue on 52PFL9606H/12. I bought it week ago in Russia, manufactured in Hungary.
I will definitely report to Philips central support about it.

[findftp]

I confirm this problem on a 40pfl7605h which was replaced by a 3d 42pfl7606h with the *same* problem after they had changed the panel from the 40pfl7605h 4 times! (and motherboard *only* once)
New TV 42pfl7606h has same problem, but I feel like being shut up by philips because they give a really good service by replacing with newer model with 3D.
At the other hand, I cannot watch horizontal panning video, dark blobs are always very annoying.

I have a solution for this problem which I already demonstrated for myself to be working.
I cannot tell because I'm not sure If I (or my boss) should patent the idea (I work at TNO, Netherlands)

[Manuel]

Every body talking about Full Led, the two Tv's you refer are Led edge.........

I confirm this problem on a 40pfl7605h which was replaced by a 3d 42pfl7606h with the *same* problem after they had changed the panel from the 40pfl7605h 4 times! (and motherboard *only* once)
New TV 42pfl7606h has same problem, but I feel like being shut up by philips because they give a really good service by replacing with newer model with 3D.
At the other hand, I cannot watch horizontal panning video, dark blobs are always very annoying.

I have a solution for this problem which I already demonstrated for myself to be working.
I cannot tell because I'm not sure If I (or my boss) should patent the idea (I work at TNO, Netherlands)

[findftp]

Does that really make a difference?

[zlatko]

Attached to this post are images of my 52PFL9606 and @jd1's 2x46PFL9706 - bad one and good one. It is hard to spot DSE on static image but if you look carefully - it is there.