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  1. #46
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    Hi all from Turkey,

    I bought 52PFL9606H this weekend.

    After reading lots of TV discussions during the last 2 months, I decided to add only 2 TV models in my shopping list list: Sony 55HX850 and Philips 52PFL9606H . All other brands had much much more problems for my acceptance.

    Before my purchase, I have read all your DSE related messages here (and on other forums) about 9 series. So I was completely aware of this issue. You can call me crazy but really not, just desperate. Because none of the current LED TV brands/models is problem-free, this is the result of all my TV investigation process during the last 2 months.

    Me and My wife went to a local Darty store in Istanbul and compared these two TV models side by side. I had a usb stick containing jpeg files to test death pixels, clouding, led backlighting, etc. As expected I found DSE/banding on 52PFL9606 as the same amount in the above attached photographs. But we also find that Sony 55HX850 had a bit more (like %30/40) DSE/banding effect ! I asked my wife to be sure, she said Sony had more DSE, too.

    I had read lots of things about the both models and decided the biggest problem in 9 series is DSE (I'm not interested in internal tuner, recording or multimedia file playing capabilities); but Sony had even more ! Additionally I have read 4-5 more problems written by Sony owners. So Philips became the best option for us. I purchuased a new closed boxed 52PFL9606H, it also had DSE/banding effect like the one in the store.

    I'm sure it's pretty normal to expect no issue on a high end TV like this, but unfortunately this is a fact that Led TV technology had lots of problems. But I still prefer Led's over Plasma's . I'll not enter Plasma discussions here, but "Plasma problems list" is much more irritating me. Anyway, I'm happy with my new purchase, but still would appreciate to Philips if they can fix DSE with a software update (However not sure they could) .
    Last edited by buyukbang; 06-11-2012 at 11:45 AM.

  2. #47
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    @buyukbang
    You have made a good choice! I was choosing between 52PFL9606 and SONY 55HX920 myself. There are many strong points in Philips 9series - ambilight, matte screen, video processing, local dimming has more zones etc. I (like you) use the TV as a big screen only, no tuner, no sound, no mediaplayer needed. I only wish there was Skype as in 2k12 models.
    Anyway I agree some DSE issues are present in other brands top screens, but that is not an excuse for Philips. Customers are demanding quality for the money they pay for premium product. And fair treatment. Philips at least can acknowledge DSE, investigate the cause and give us a statement, be it "This is a rough edge of new LED technology".
    Thank you for sharing your experience with us! That's what makes internet forums great sources of information!
    @DanFK
    I can tell you from your pic - I have similar amount of DSE on my screen. We keep piling evidence, let see if there will be Philips reaction to this.
    Last edited by zlatko; 06-11-2012 at 12:50 PM.

  3. #48
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    Hi Zlatko,

    I even didn't install stand/ tv speakers like you. I think our usage models are completely same. Picture quality and amblight is amazing. BTW, I completely agree your demands. I wish Philips can take actions to solve DSE issue.

    For your information, 2012 Sony models lost its high built quality to lower the costs and prizes. I read lots of dead pixel reports after 1-2 weeks usage. I'm afraid the same will apply Philips 2012 models. One of the reasons of not waiting Philips 9xx7 was this suspect.

    Quote Originally Posted by zlatko View Post
    @buyukbang
    You have made a good choice! I was choosing between 52PFL9606 and SONY 55HX920 myself. There are many strong points in Philips 9series - ambilight, matte screen, video processing, local dimming has more zones etc. I (like you) use the TV as a big screen only, no tuner, no sound, no mediaplayer needed. I only wish there was Skype as in 2k12 models.
    Anyway I agree some DSE issues are present in other brands top screens, but that is not an excuse for Philips. Customers are demanding quality for the money they pay for premium product. And fair treatment. Philips at least can acknowledge DSE, investigate the cause and give us a statement, be it "This is a rough edge of new LED technology".
    Thank you for sharing your experience with us! That's what makes internet forums great sources of information!
    @DanFK
    I can tell you from your pic - I have similar amount of DSE on my screen. We keep piling evidence, let see if there will be Philips reaction to this.

  4. #49
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    @buyukbang
    From what I read even Philips 2k12 9-series will not be Direct LED, but Edge lit. And as I am buying TV for the next 5 years when OLEDs will take the stage I think I have made the right decision. Waiting more will not bring any significant improvements in local dimming LED screens. What I wish I had in 9606 is 60" screen version(there IS in 2k12), Motheye filter, Skype and DSE free panel.
    As I watch a lot of Alpine skiing DSE is very annoying. On football as well. Movies are no issue - I completely forget about DSE.

  5. #50
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    Hi guys,

    just two small "corrections":

    Quote Originally Posted by zlatko View Post
    From what I read even Philips 2k12 9-series will not be Direct LED, but Edge lit.
    This is NOT true. 2012 9-Series WILL feature Direct Local Dimming LED technology. Exact specs are still unknown.

    Quote Originally Posted by zlatko View Post
    Philips at least can acknowledge DSE, investigate the cause and give us a statement, be it "This is a rough edge of new LED technology".
    In fact it is "an extremely rough edge", caused by wrong priorities, insisting on making panels thinner and thinner. The thinner a Direct LED panel is, the more suspicious you should be of DSE.
    Last edited by Freddy; 06-11-2012 at 03:30 PM.

  6. #51
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    @Freddy
    Thank you for the info!
    I was mislead because in specs I saw it was stated "Advanced Micro Dimming" which for me implies Edge LED. Can you point to source where you got the info about 2k12 being Direct LED?
    On the market here currently only 3 models using Direct LED: Philips 9 series, SONY HX92X and Sharp Elite series . All of them are not so thin compared to edge lit screens.

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by zlatko View Post
    I was mislead because in specs I saw it was stated "Advanced Micro Dimming" which for me implies Edge LED.
    I understand. It's a "Marketing Miracle" to give two completely different technologies nearly the same name...

    On the market here currently only 3 models using Direct LED: Philips 9 series, SONY HX92X and Sharp Elite series . All of them are not so thin compared to edge lit screens.
    But they are, compared to the 2010 Direct LED models, which had very little DSE, if any.

    P.S.: I just noticed this was post #200 for me!!!
    Last edited by Freddy; 06-12-2012 at 12:35 AM.

  8. #53
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    Do you mean "Full" Led with "Direct" Led, sorry I'm not used for this term. But if you mean "Full", just for your information, none of the Sony 2011/2012 models are full Led including Sony HX92X, which is Edge Led with local dimming.

    Quote Originally Posted by zlatko View Post
    @Freddy
    Thank you for the info!
    I was mislead because in specs I saw it was stated "Advanced Micro Dimming" which for me implies Edge LED. Can you point to source where you got the info about 2k12 being Direct LED?
    On the market here currently only 3 models using Direct LED: Philips 9 series, SONY HX92X and Sharp Elite series . All of them are not so thin compared to edge lit screens.

  9. #54
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    @Freddy
    What do you suppose is cause of DSE? And how is it related to thickness of TV set?

    @buyukbang
    There are 2 types of LED lit screens in regards to LEDs position in relation to screen - Edge and Direct. As far as I know there is no term "Full LED", this might by some marketing gimmick.
    Direct - LEDs placed directly behind LCD panel.
    Edge - LEDs placed on the side edges of LCD panel.
    And SONY HX929 is Direct LED screen, NOT an Edge lit. http://store.sony.com/webapp/wcs/sto...ber=XBR55HX929
    Or may be you mean "full-array LED"? Which is same as Direct LED. Anyway for me it is better to use Direct LED as this clearly state the position of LEDs behind screen.
    You can have Direct LED with or without local dimming. Both SONY 55HX929 and 52PFLPhilips 9606 are Direct LED with local dimming.
    Edge LED screens do not have local dimming, because of the nature of their built they can not dim zones locally. Some of them can dim stripes. They have also so called Micro Dimming which is a SW trick.
    Last edited by zlatko; 06-12-2012 at 07:16 AM.

  10. #55
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    OK,

    In my country (and strangely in the international reviews I read ) TV's categorized as Edge Led and Full Led, this is my first time encoured the term "Direct", but after goggling I understand that Full and Direct are just synonyms.

    I just googled for some more information for XBR series:
    http://askville.amazon.com/differenc...estId=33505321

    In my country only KDL-HX920 model is available, which is and Edge Led. But AFAI understand XBR series have full led array, as you say. XBR-HX929 has 15x7=105 dimming zones according to this thread:
    http://www.avsforum.com/t/1318875/of...rice-talk/2250

    But KDL series have a different story:

    http://www.techmagnifier.com/1476/te...-in-india.aspx
    "Sony BRAVIA KDL-55HX925 include a TV that has edge LED backlit LCD panel"

    http://archive.techtree.com/techtree...398&cat_id=898
    "Sony BRAVIA KDL-55HX925 is an edge LED-backlit LCD "



    Quote Originally Posted by zlatko View Post
    Freddy
    What do you suppose is cause of DSE? And how is it related to thickness of TV set?
    @buyukbang
    There are 2 types of LED lit screens in regards to LEDs position behind screen - Edge and Direct. As far as I know there is no term "Full LED", this might by some marketing gimmick.
    Direct - LEDs placed directly behind LCD panel.
    Edge - LEDs placed on the side edges of LCD panel.
    And SONY HX929 is Direct LED screen, NOT an Edge lit. http://store.sony.com/webapp/wcs/sto...ber=XBR55HX929
    You can have Direct LED with or without local dimming. Both SONY 55HX929 and 52PFLPhilips 9606 are Direct LED with local dimming.
    Edge LED screens do not have local dimming, because of the nature of their built they can not dim zones locally. Some of them can dim stripes. They have also so called Micro Dimming which is a SW trick.

  11. #56
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    @buyukbang
    Yes, looks so Anyway - we are speaking about same thing.
    About SONY 55HX92X - we must be careful, because there may be different versions. 925/929 are Direct LEDs according to SONY itself: http://www.sony.com.au/product/kdl-55hx925 . Below is SONY description of Intelligent PEAK LED used in 925/929:
    Intelligent Peak LED
    This system varies backlight brightness in real time, according to what is shown on screen. An array of LEDs directly behind the screen divides the picture into numerous zones, each of which can be dimmed or boosted independently. The resulting picture has a powerful combination of intense highlights, brighter whites and deep rich, satisfying blacks and shadow detail.
    May be different regions - different products under same name?
    But enough offtopic - lets concentrate on getting rid of our very own DSE
    Last edited by zlatko; 06-12-2012 at 10:00 AM.

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by zlatko View Post
    What do you suppose is cause of DSE? And how is it related to thickness of TV set?
    Well... first of all there are many kinds of DSE:

    1 - It can be in the source, called MPEG Banding; this one is very common and often mistaken for one of the other kinds;
    2 - It can really be a Dirty Screen, when there is a glass cover in front of the panel; not very common though;
    3 - It can be in the panel itself; a manufacturing defect, often seen as a number of thin vertical lines;
    4 - And finally, the one we're dealing with here, it can be in the backlight.


    In case of the backlight caused DSE, there are again two sub-kinds:

    - there is of course the clouding issue that Edge LED models experience, caused by insufficient light guiding;
    - and there is the banding problem on Direct LED models.

    The banding problem can be caused by either not enough LEDs to properly fill the entire screen (not the case here), or it can be caused by something similar as what is causing clouding: insufficient light guiding.
    The light being produced by the LEDs, be it on the Edge or Directly behind the screen, has to be guided (by lenses and diffusers) so that it equally fills the entire screen, without showing any darker or brighter spots. The thinner the screen is, the harder it is to accomplish this.

    Look at it this way: you're holding two torches, one in your left hand and one in your right. Point them at the wall, standing a couple of feet away. The light beams from the two torches overlap one another, creating a large oval bright area on your wall. Now slowly walk towards the wall and see what's happening. The closer you get to the wall, the more the two beams are separated from each other. In the end, when they're almost touching the wall, there are two distinct overly bright spots separated by a dark area in between.

    Now there is a problem... created by design decisions: looks over quality!...

  13. #58
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    @Freddy
    Thank you for this discussion buddy!
    Yes, my question was about DSE issue with backlight and relation with screen thickness.
    Your analogy is good and I think explanation is plausible! Let see how Direct LED screens develop in the future.
    Last edited by zlatko; 06-12-2012 at 11:58 AM.

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    Hey everybody,

    It seems my battle is finished and I'm defeated. After all tests and checks Philips said that my screen satisfies the requirements and no issues at all. If I want to replace my TV screen I have to pay for it. the only way now is to break own mind and try to don't draw attention to it. Anyway, this is real BS!!!

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    @Dimovey
    Sorry to hear that! Looks like now we are screwed - Philips is not acknowledging DSE and is not willing to take any action. We have to live with this issue until we switch to another TV set. I will see what can be done with my local service shop.

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