Results 1 to 9 of 9
  • Topic Tools
  • Display
  • Bookmark and Share

Hybrid View

  1. #1
    Bronze Member
    Points: 860, Level: 7
    Level completed: 55%, Points required for next Level: 90
    Overall activity: 0%
    Achievements:
    3 months registered500 Experience PointsNew Achievement!
    Caveman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    27
    Points
    860
    Level
    7
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Rep Power
    0

    Update Firmware WITHOUT SongBird

    Hi,

    Most electronics device I have used, it is possible to update the firmware by either connecting an USB key or by copying the firmware binary into the root of the device. Why Philips devices need Songbird for doing firmware update?

    This is not convenient for two reasons:

    1. I use drag & drop media files directly into the device. No need of SongBird.

    2. I use Linux and SB is only available for Windows.

    Is it possible to do firmware update without SongBird? Also can you post firmware updates in the forum with changelog?

    Thanks in advance

  2. #2
    Bronze Member
    Points: 1,423, Level: 10
    Level completed: 37%, Points required for next Level: 127
    Overall activity: 0%
    Achievements:
    1 year registered1000 Experience PointsNew Achievement!

    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    36
    Points
    1,423
    Level
    10
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Rep Power
    0
    for philips products, the firmware either goes through songbird or device manager (for mix3)
    this is not quite convenient indeed if u use linux.

    for the firmware update history...
    there are 2 type of updates > a) on songbird b) on firmware

    sometimes, upgrades on songbird does not go through philips, so full log is not seen so far
    for firmware upgrades, it's embedded in songbird, unlike other firmware on the philips website... it's out once there s upgrade... so songbird again.

  3. #3
    Bronze Member
    Points: 860, Level: 7
    Level completed: 55%, Points required for next Level: 90
    Overall activity: 0%
    Achievements:
    3 months registered500 Experience PointsNew Achievement!
    Caveman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    27
    Points
    860
    Level
    7
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by jvpeters View Post
    sometimes, upgrades on songbird does not go through philips, so full log is not seen so far
    for firmware upgrades, it's embedded in songbird, unlike other firmware on the philips website... it's out once there s
    upgrade... so songbird again.
    So firmware update needs SongBird but SB is not controlled by Philips? What kind of design is that? Firmware update is no magic. Usually, the manufacturer publish the firmware version, the changelog, and the binary to download.

    Because of the dependency on the "Blackbox" design relying on SongBird, this makes the firmware updates an obscure procedure. So far I am lucky I didn't brick any device after firmware update. Philips needs to document clearly how to roll back a firmware.

  4. #4
    Bronze Member
    Points: 1,042, Level: 8
    Level completed: 46%, Points required for next Level: 108
    Overall activity: 0%
    Achievements:
    1 year registered1000 Experience PointsNew Achievement!

    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    28
    Points
    1,042
    Level
    8
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Rep Power
    0
    Let me second this idea for any Philips product that can accept firmware upgrades. On reset, if the device finds that there is a file of some magic filename in its root directory, it should regard it as new firmware and upgrade itself before proceeding to normal operation (then rename or delete the file to prevent the same from happening on the next cold-start). A file with a different name could reside on the device to provide a known-good version in case anything goes wrong with the upgrade operation.

    My old Frontier Labs MP3 player (they are gone) worked this way--and I was able to view the upgrade file before copying it to the device, in order to modify the fonts and the text prompts.

  5. #5
    Diamond Member
    Points: 4,685, Level: 20
    Level completed: 9%, Points required for next Level: 365
    Overall activity: 25.0%
    Achievements:
    1 year registered1000 Experience PointsNew Achievement!
    Awards:
    Discussion Ender

    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    1,083
    Points
    4,685
    Level
    20
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
    Rep Power
    6
    hi caveman,
    there are 2 parts - songbird is kinda a bought software and then they add philips elements to it like the firmware...

    so there are 2 parts of upgrade - 1) songbird upgrade 2) firmware upgrade (philips)

  6. #6
    Bronze Member
    Points: 860, Level: 7
    Level completed: 55%, Points required for next Level: 90
    Overall activity: 0%
    Achievements:
    3 months registered500 Experience PointsNew Achievement!
    Caveman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    27
    Points
    860
    Level
    7
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by kwinnie View Post
    hi caveman,
    there are 2 parts - songbird is kinda a bought software and then they add philips elements to it like the firmware...

    so there are 2 parts of upgrade - 1) songbird upgrade 2) firmware upgrade (philips)
    That's the Philips way of doing things. Other devices, you copy the firmware to the root of the device and upon power off and on, the device applies itself the firmware update.

    Additionally, when you go to the web site to get the firmware update. You have the changelog of what has been changed in the firmware version. Also you have the history of all past versions. With Songbird, it works like a blackbox and you have none of these information. And you needs to install this monstrous Songbird software, connect your device. Only then, you can check if there is new firmware update. If you use Linux, then you are stuck. I hope you are convinced that the Songbird way of checking and applying firmware is an extremely bad design.

  7. #7
    Silver Member
    Points: 2,112, Level: 12
    Level completed: 88%, Points required for next Level: 38
    Overall activity: 0%
    Achievements:
    1 year registeredTagger Second Class1000 Experience PointsNew Achievement!

    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Munich, Germany
    Posts
    85
    Points
    2,112
    Level
    12
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Rep Power
    4
    @Caveman,
    you are not alone with your point of view. I've got the same issue with GoGear Sa2: no support for firmware update using Linux. But it was more than a year ago and this sound - sub-forum was opened later. So I asked Philips support and they did say sorry...
    I also think it shoud be standard and simple to provide software update in an easy way of copying firmware to SD card root. But the devices don't support this way. They need a proprietary driver to communicate. And one design reason for that may be the various supported commercial services - assume they need to communicate during installation for DRM reasons..

    And I did a bit research on Songbird and found, that the Songbird Crew stopped Linux support some month before Philips did start distributing its Songbird version bundled. Songbird is a open source project. Don't know how Philips is concerned to this Project an if the support its developement. But I think if they did really wont Linux support, there would be an Linux Songbird Version.
    Last edited by ahasver; 06-24-2012 at 11:39 PM.

  8. #8
    New Member
    Points: 253, Level: 3
    Level completed: 3%, Points required for next Level: 97
    Overall activity: 0%
    Achievements:
    3 months registered250 Experience PointsNew Achievement!
    BunnyOlesen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Linkoping Sweden
    Posts
    8
    Points
    253
    Level
    3
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Rep Power
    0
    A shame, because of continuing problems with RAGASR4 series MP3 players not being able to update or repair through songbird. I found that out the hard way after attempting a factory reset, having all my files deleted, and then SONGBIRD won't connect to the player and download the updates or program files.

    It happened to me the first of August, was told it was a known issue they were working on, it is now almost November 1st, and I have no settings files or anything on my MP3 player.

    If I could download the factory settings a different way I could have fixed it.

  9. #9
    Bronze Member
    Points: 860, Level: 7
    Level completed: 55%, Points required for next Level: 90
    Overall activity: 0%
    Achievements:
    3 months registered500 Experience PointsNew Achievement!
    Caveman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    27
    Points
    860
    Level
    7
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Rep Power
    0
    Got an email notification so I go back here. I don't think that Philips will fix anything, for the firmware update issue or for other feedbacks I left in this forum. For the simple reason that they deem not cost effective. I still believe that there is still a cost effective solution: hire some hackers for example those who design custom ROM Rockbox. Instead of paying for the incompetent tech team at Philips.

    Additionally, I think that the dedicated MP3 Players market is dead. I have switched to Android based devices. All the issues I got with Philips are fixed easily. There are tons of Android music player apps. The good and free ones I have selected are Cloud Skipper, WinAmp and Mort Player. Incredibly enough, it is possible to play MIDI files.

    Overall, I no longer care although I still use these Philips players occasionally when doing outdoor activity. I understand why they are limited and there are better alternatives. If one day, Philips produces a 16GB Android music player under $100, I may be interested.

Similar Topics

  1. Can`t update firmware
    By RevanKnight in forum Sound: GoGear SA3-series (2011)
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 02-16-2012, 08:29 AM
  2. Issues with firmware update
    By Snecx in forum TV: Software 2010 models
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 12-29-2011, 08:29 AM
  3. Firmware update for 8404?
    By JethroUK in forum TV: Software 2009 models (and older)
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 12-03-2011, 07:43 PM
  4. Philips Songbird Firmware error
    By PEPE46 in forum Sound: GoGear SA1-series (2009)
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 11-23-2011, 06:07 AM
  5. SA3ARA04K/02 Philips Songbird Firmware Download error
    By PEPE46 in forum Sound: GoGear SA3-series (2011)
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 11-08-2011, 09:18 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •