50PFL7956K (Cinema 21:9 Gold) - extreme ghosting/crosstalk

[PhilipsUser666666]

Hello, I have bought a 50PFL7956K and it shows extreme ghosting effects in 3D movies (3D Blu-Ray, 3D Youtube movies, test patterns, 2D to 3D Simulation). I have tried to use several distances (1-4m; normal distance is 3m) and installed all software updates. What is the problem with my TV? The effect ist very strong so that I get headache, absolutely unacceptable. I took a lot of pictures (every picture is only taken through one side L/R of the 3D glasses), but the pictures can not show the effect very good. In reality it is even stronger.
If somebody wants to take part in a German discussion about that problem, please visit http://www.hifi-forum.de/viewthread-152-9525.html

Sample pictures:


EDIT:
Hi, I had a chat with a german Philips technican (R. Meyer). He said: Ok also laut ihren Fotos ist es doch sehr extrem (translation: Ok, regarding your pics the effect is very extreme).
So, the 3D Feature doesn't work correct. The TV is broken. I will exchange it.

EDIT 2 (2012-03-27):
Unbelievable! I have sent the TV back to Amazon and they reimbursement me the money, so that I could by a new 50PFL7956K. Believe it or not the new TV has absolutely NO ghosting!! OK, currently I only tried only 2D-to-3D conversion, one 3D Blu-Ray and 3D test patterns. At the next weekend I will try other 3D sources.
OK, here is my recommandation: if you have ghosting on your 50PFL7956K don't accept it! It must be a technical failure. Exchange your TV and enjoy 3D movies without ghosting/crosstalk.

[petasis]

If I remember correctly, this is a passive 3D tv, which means that it offers the least crosstalk in 3D technology can offer. The fact that you get a headache is not relevant to the performance of the TV in my opinion. What is sold as 3D from studios is not 3D in the sense the human brain is accustomed to. Instead is a pseudo-3D, that the brain has difficulties interpreting, so watching 3D anywhere is tiresome, and causes headaches.

Actually, this Tv uses the same technology that is used in cinemas. Have you ever tried to see a 3D movie in the cinema? Did you also got a headache?
(I did, and I stopped seeing 3D completely)

I don't have an advice, other than trying to reduce the brightness of your TV (as this will make crosstalk less visible).

I don't think that there is anything that can be done to improve this...

[PhilipsUser666666]

Hi Petasis, normally (in cinema and watching TV without crosstalk) I get no headache. It is absolute an effect of ghosting/crosstalk. The effects are so strong that I can take photos of it (see the samples). Thats not correct I think. The TV must be broken from the beginning on. That is my opinion.
Here is another sample (MP4 File, 3D, played from an USB-Stick via the TV-USB):

[Toengel]

Hi,

which source did you test? Can you test a Blu-ray such as Sammy's?

Toengel@Alex

[bluevoice]

Hi Petasis, normally (in cinema and watching TV without crosstalk) I get no headache. It is absolute an effect of ghosting/crosstalk. The effects are so strong that I can take photos of it (see the samples). Thats not correct I think. The TV must be broken from the beginning on. That is my opinion.
Here is another sample (MP4 File, 3D, played from an USB-Stick via the TV-USB):

I also have the Philips Cinema Gold and I experience no crosstalk at all. 3D viewing is an absolute delight on this TV. Crosstalk also depends on the source material. I see you've posted some screenshots from Sammy and the Secret passage, this movie is known to have some crosstalk now and then. It's the source material not the tv. Do you also experience crosstalk when you watch 3D Blurays like Avatar and Tron Legacy? Those are 2 of the best 3D movies on Bluray and I see no crosstalk at all. I also experienced that if you download 3D movies from the internet you could also see some crosstalk because of the conversion.

[PhilipsUser666666]

Hi,

which source did you test? Can you test a Blu-ray such as Sammy's?

Toengel@Alex

Three of the sample pictures are from Sammys. The problem is, that I (and friends) have never (!) seen a 3D source on this TV without ghosting.
-Blu-Ray (Player = Philips HTS9221/12):Sammy, Henry&Julie, Sanctum, Thor, Tron, etc.
-USB (TV): Test pattern (e.g. Side-by-side pictures from Burosch), movie files downloaded from the internet
-USB (Player): Test pattern (e.g. Side-by-side pictures from Burosch), movie files downloaded from the internet
-NetTV (3D movies from the Youtube app)
-3D movies from the regular TV program (ARTE Themenabende)
-2D to 3D conversion (regular TV program and regular Blu-Rays)

[PhilipsUser666666]

Do you also experience crosstalk when you watch 3D Blurays like Avatar and Tron Legacy? Those are 2 of the best 3D movies on Bluray and I see no crosstalk at all.

Tron Legacy has also crosstalk (not so strong but almost the whole 3D scenes). I haven't try Avatar but a lot of other sources:
-Blu-Ray:Sammy, Henry&Julie, Sanctum, Thor, Tron, Resident Evil, etc.
-USB (TV&Player): Test pattern, movie files downloaded from the internet
-NetTV (3D movies from the Youtube app)
-3D movies from the regular TV program
-2D to 3D conversion (regular TV program and regular Blu-Rays)

[bluevoice]

Tron Legacy has also crosstalk (not so strong but almost the whole 3D scenes). I haven't try Avatar but a lot of other sources:
-Blu-Ray:Sammy, Henry&Julie, Sanctum, Thor, Tron, Resident Evil, etc.
-USB (TV&Player): Test pattern, movie files downloaded from the internet
-NetTV (3D movies from the Youtube app)
-3D movies from the regular TV program
-2D to 3D conversion (regular TV program and regular Blu-Rays)

What is your watching angle? If I stand up than I also see a lot of ghosting, but when my sight is in line with the TV (sitting on a couch) there's no ghosting at all (besides if the source is flawed).

[PhilipsUser666666]

I have tried every distance from 1-4m an every realistic angle (horicontal, vertical). The best position is my "regeluar sofa position" (distance 3m, eyes in the middle horicontal, eyes on the middle vertical). But the crosstalk never disappears, it only moves from the side to the middle (if I change distances or angles). And crosstalk in the center of a movie make it absolute unwatchable! Crosstalk on the sides (left stronger than right) is also unacceptable for a 2200 EUR TV but the movies are mostly watchable (with a bit headache at the end).
I think I have to send the TV back to Amazon and claim it. 3D is not so important for me, but for that price I want to have a TV which is technical OK.

[bluevoice]

I have tried every distance from 1-4m an every realistic angle (horicontal, vertical). The best position is my "regeluar sofa position" (distance 3m, eyes in the middle horicontal, eyes on the middle vertical). But the crosstalk never disappears, it only moves from the side to the middle (if I change distances or angles). And crosstalk in the center of a movie make it absolute unwatchable! Crosstalk on the sides (left stronger than right) is also unacceptable for a 2200 EUR TV but the movies are mostly watchable (with a bit headache at the end).
I think I have to send the TV back to Amazon and claim it. 3D is not so important for me, but for that price I want to have a TV which is technical OK.

Seems that something is wrong with your tv, on my Philips Cinema Gold, 3D is really a pleasure to watch. Maybe you should exchange it.

[PhilipsUser666666]

Seems that something is wrong with your tv, on my Philips Cinema Gold, 3D is really a pleasure to watch. Maybe you should exchange it.

It is absolutely dissapointing that the TV has so much crosstalk, because in conclusion it is a good TV. But you are right! I should exchange it.
It was very important for me to know If other users have the same problem, but now I can be sure. Something is wrong with only my TV.
Thank you for help!

[bluevoice]

You're welcome, please let us know if your exchange tv is ok, when you get it.

[petasis]

You will not find a TV that does not have cross-talk in 3D. The internet is full of screenshots from various TVs, and none of them has a perfect 3D image.

The passive TVs (like the one you have) exhibit more stable 3D images, if you don't mind the lower vertical resolution. The only problem is that you must find the "sweet spot" (you have to be at 0 degrees from the panel perpendicular axis - that means you have to face the panel), and find the right distance from your tv, that minimizes crosstalk.

Since you have tried all these, and you want to change your tv, I would suggest to check an active 3D at a store. Don't try another passive 3D TV, as they all have the same panels from LG (LG holds the patents on passive 3D). So, expect all of them to have similar performance regarding 3D.

[PhilipsUser666666]

You will not find a TV that does not have cross-talk in 3D. The internet is full of screenshots from various TVs, and none of them has a perfect 3D image.

I agree with you. But I have seen a lot of TVs in the last months (including passive 3D TVs) and no one showed the effect I could see on my TV. In particular it is not acceptable that my TV showed strong crosstalk at both sides in every 3D movie or picture.

Don't try another passive 3D TV, as they all have the same panels from LG (LG holds the patents on passive 3D). So, expect all of them to have similar performance regarding 3D.

Interesting information. I didn't know that all passive panels are from LG.

[petasis]

Yes they are. All brands that make passive 3D TV, have to use an LG panel for this.
Philips, LG (obviously), Panasonic, Sony, Toshiba, all have LG panels in their passive 3D models. Samsung does not (yet) offer passive 3D TVs.