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  1. #1
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    Defective panel?

    Hello.
    Here is the reference image which I open on PC which is connected to 47PFL4606 TV:
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Untitled-2111.png 
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    It's basically combination of different shades of black and gray.

    Here is what I get on screen:
    (small version just to see what's wrong)
    Name:  Untitled-4.png
Views: 412
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    Full photo: http://i.imgur.com/mo2AY.jpg
    As you can clearly see it has right color only in the very bottom part and moving to the top it becomes "greener" and "greener".
    Is my TV defective and I should return it to seller or am I missing something?
    Last edited by kmzkmz; 03-18-2012 at 10:37 PM.

  2. #2
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    Philips - Thomas's Avatar
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    Hi

    what about other pictures, what about internal tuners?
    Please share more pictures.

    Thanks
    Thomas

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Philips - Thomas View Post
    what about internal tuners?
    It looks the same if I load that file from flash drive.
    Quote Originally Posted by Philips - Thomas View Post
    what about other pictures
    It also can be seen on white background: bottom part is a bit brighter then top. But it's not as clearly visible as on that "gray" file.
    Quote Originally Posted by Philips - Thomas View Post
    Please share more pictures.
    What exactly pictures do you want?

    Also can't you just load that file from USB on any of your 4606 TVs (you probably MUST have them) and it will tell if it's common problem or only mine? It'll save a lot of time for me to make pictures, upload them, etc.
    Btw, tested it on my old 32" LG with (IPS panel too) it shows gray on all screen.

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    What is the perpose of this test image? What do you want to test with it?
    If you want to test the uniformity of your panel, you should use a pattern with (any) uniform colour.

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    Huh? What's the difference what I want to test with it? It's just test image from The "Lagom LCD monitor test pages" http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/clock_phase.php. And it's displayed perfectly on all my monitors at work, and at home, and on my old LG TV. And you can CLEARLY see that it's horribly wrong on Philips TV.

    So I just want to hear simple answer: is it on all Philips TVs(some damned image "enhancer" or similar) or I've just got "bad/defected" TV. And instead of simple "sorry, it works that way on all TVs" or "you should replace you TV, it's broken" I see some strange questions like "Why you want to show that image?".

    You know I cannot take HUGE 47" TV in my bag and drop it at Philips service center to check on my way to work. It'll cost money. And I don't want to spend them for nothing. That's why I use this SUPPORT forum to check.

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    If you simply collect pattrerns from the net, and you throw them at a device, without having any knowledge what each pattern does, this is what you get at the end.

    I am not going to enter details here (I suspect you are not in a mood to learn), but what you have asked:

    Is the panel problematic: detect with a solid colour. Is a gray horribly wrong on the TV? Its broken.

    TVs are not monitors: they try to make out a viewable picture out of less-perfect signal. If you want to simulate a monitor, deactivate all processing, or use pc mode.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by petasis View Post
    ...without having any knowledge what each pattern does, this is what you get at the end.
    It's demagogy. Either image is displayed correctly or not.

    Quote Originally Posted by petasis View Post
    TVs are not monitors: they try to make out a viewable picture out of less-perfect signal. If you want to simulate a monitor, deactivate all processing, or use pc mode.
    PC mode IS activated.
    Also "And it's displayed perfectly ... on my old LG TV"
    Also http://forum.ixbt.com/topic.cgi?id=62:19836-61#2172. I'll translate it for you:
    "Hello,I have the same TV, but 42", opened picture it's EVENLY grey."

    Quote Originally Posted by petasis View Post
    TVs are not monitors: they try to make out a viewable picture out of less-perfect signal.
    This statement has no sense for 47" FullHD TV which is MOSTLY intended for perfect signal: Blu-rays, Game consoles, Game PCs etc.

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    yep your tv is broke send it to philips for repaire

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by kmzkmz View Post
    It's demagogy. Either image is displayed correctly or not.


    PC mode IS activated.
    Also "And it's displayed perfectly ... on my old LG TV"
    Also http://forum.ixbt.com/topic.cgi?id=62:19836-61#2172. I'll translate it for you:
    "Hello,I have the same TV, but 42", opened picture it's EVENLY grey."


    This statement has no sense for 47" FullHD TV which is MOSTLY intended for perfect signal: Blu-rays, Game consoles, Game PCs etc.
    What you don't seem to understand (and accuse people for demagogy), is that the signal processing of the TV can alter hi frequency patterns (like the one you test with), as they try to excel in video processing, and not on patterns, which is not the typical input for these algorithms. There is no doubt that this pattern may look better on brands without mature video processing technology (like LGs, panasonics), and look worse on other brands (like Philips, sony or samsung).

    But the real question is: have you tried with a uniform colour? Do you see colour variation on a shade of gray? If yes, then there is a uniformity problem in your panel. Why you don't just do this simple test?

    You can do whatever you want with your TV. Its yours. You can returned it. But when you post on a public forum, you should not attack people just because you don't like what they say.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by petasis View Post
    ... Its yours. You can returned it.
    Problem is I can't (if I could I'd already do it). I live in Ukraine and I cannot return TV if it's already unpacked and used unless it has some defects.

    Quote Originally Posted by petasis View Post
    What you don't seem to understand (and accuse people for demagogy), is that the signal processing of the TV can alter hi frequency patterns (like the one you test with), as they try to excel in video processing, and not on patterns, which is not the typical input for these algorithms. There is no doubt that this pattern may look better on brands without mature video processing technology (like LGs, panasonics), and look worse on other brands (like Philips, sony or samsung).
    Then how will you explain the fact that pattern is OK on 42" model which uses the same "chassis", only difference is physical panel size?
    Last edited by kmzkmz; 03-20-2012 at 07:48 PM.

  11. #11
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    Different processing settings, more subtle effect seen by the user, as the photo may exagerate color shift due to lense distortion, etc.

    If you check with a solid color, do you see the same colour variation on the same spot?

    [An example of how a photo can make things look worse, is this picture:

    It clearly shows a black "spot" on the panel of my TV, but is due to lens, there is nothing there. Despite I used a Cannon D550 camera]

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by petasis View Post
    Different processing settings, more subtle effect seen by the user, as the photo may exagerate
    color shift due to lense distortion, etc.
    Believe me, I'm not that stupid to post photo which doesn't look the same as TV itself (Canon D450 used btw). Also as I already said there is no processing settings which makes that pattern to look OK.

    Quote Originally Posted by petasis View Post
    If you check with a solid color, do you see the same colour variation on the same spot?
    It seems to look OK on solid patterns. But may be (as I use this TV less then 2 weeks) I still didn't find real world image/video which will look "bad" because of this "bug". And this is my main concern.

    Also simple question: do you have it on your Philips TV?

  13. #13
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    If you don't see any (significant) colour deviation on solid colours, then there is no problem with your panel's uniformity. Seeing colour deviations on this pattern though, suggests that there is some problem in the processing section, which may be possible as you have a 4000 series. Signal processing in lower series is worse than higher series (in all brands). But as I have already said, this may not have any side-effect on video material, because the pattern does not test that.

    In my 9705, I see a "green" circle around the red square. I suppose not much different from yours. If I disable local dimming completely, I get a perfect image of the pattern. But this is a 9000 series TV.

    On my brother's samsung D8000, I see a different colour deviation: I see two green "stripes"/columns towards the left & right edges of the TV. I don't know what to deactivate there, to see if it can be shown without errors.

    The fact that you cannot get a perfect reproduction with all processing off, suggests that the signal processing of the TV is capable up to some point. There are patterns that will help you measure the limit, but this requires some search from your part.

    Just for fun, I will add some photos of the same test pattern, on various high-end TVs, from a Greek review site:





    And these from the best TVs these companies can offer. You expect the performance to be worst on their lower series.
    Last edited by petasis; 03-22-2012 at 09:01 AM.

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