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  1. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by petasis View Post

    What you complain about is a problem of motion compensation in general, and exists on all TVs. Have you checked the same scenes in another brand?
    I think it would be interesting fr you to do so.

    There is no solution for the problems you describe, other than to put HDNM at its minimum setting, or close it completely. It cannot be fixed, no matter what philips may try to do.
    I truly love when people are making allegations without bothering to verify them. For your viewing pleasure I will post a video of my 42PFL9603D - a four years old TV with the same scene that I posted to show the issues 6007 series have. Look closely at the bars on the right hand side of the picture. Then look at the other video. Both have HDNM on maximum.



    The picture on the 9603D is not perfect, It has some blur but this is not what we asked from Philips. We asked to fix the HDNM/PNM of the 6xx7 series in order to handle motion in the way my 4 years old TV was handling. Is this unreasonable?

    The other video is here:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KilUA1A6ls4&feature=plcp
    Last edited by majorusa; 11-05-2012 at 09:01 AM.

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    Thanks Majorusa, I have the feeling we are now trying to underestimate the problem... from people without this model...

    Again if 6xx7 owners dont' see these artifacts/judder, I'm ok with it. But again Philips should decide and communicate whether there are problems or not. I/we don't try to do Philips' job, thus make good product. A

    My/our own goal was to point at a problem so that the development team can correct it. This is why I posted other videos than Majorusa (that showed all problems), I also posted frame outputs with comments.

    We have asked hundreds of times for acknowledgment, Philips would not tell until we began to get mad at this forum !
    Now, as I understand Juan/Philips is acknowledging but talking as little as they can:
    Again I would like to point out that the HDNM (or Juddering) issue is under our full attention. At this point in time, unfortunately I can only repeat myself: we are looking into this and we will for sure get back to you a.s.a.p.
    Again they could have said that their HDNM had no defect... This is not my understanding from Juan.

    Now, I don't watch football. I only watch films and animations. I don't undestand why these artifacts would not occur, but again, you may be more tolerant. Lucky you !

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    Quote Originally Posted by Manuj View Post
    Thanks Majorusa, I have the feeling we are now trying to underestimate the problem... from people without this model...

    Again if 6xx7 owners dont' see these artifacts/judder, I'm ok with it. But again Philips should decide and communicate whether there are problems or not. I/we don't try to do Philips' job, thus make good product. A

    My/our own goal was to point at a problem so that the development team can correct it. This is why I posted other videos than Majorusa (that showed all problems), I also posted frame outputs with comments.

    We have asked hundreds of times for acknowledgment, Philips would not tell until we began to get mad at this forum !
    Now, as I understand Juan/Philips is acknowledging but talking as little as they can:

    Again they could have said that their HDNM had no defect... This is not my understanding from Juan.

    Now, I don't watch football. I only watch films and animations. I don't undestand why these artifacts would not occur, but again, you may be more tolerant. Lucky you !
    I have watched those two clips (bee movie and jail bars) over and over last night on my 6007 comparing with the two videos posted, I noticed you are using the maximum setting, I use the minimum setting which maybe why i'm not seeing the problem as bad as in the videos posted - (I would only use maximum for sport - Formula one for example) - I will try the max setting tonight to compare.

  4. #229
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    I have only set the minimum setting. Never more (and if there was no issue, min setting would be fine for me).
    There may be some hardware differences then ? Or some other setting combination ? (clear lcd is ON, mpeg artifacts to min)
    I've read several times that it was not a major issue for you.

    Did you download the clip ?
    I may also post some other frames. Like having tipple vertical lines at once (one in reference clip, but 3 on screen)

  5. #230
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manuj View Post
    I have only set the minimum setting. Never more (and if there was no issue, min setting would be fine for me).
    There may be some hardware differences then ? Or some other setting combination ? (clear lcd is ON, mpeg artifacts to min)
    I've read several times that it was not a major issue for you.

    Did you download the clip ?
    I may also post some other frames. Like having tipple vertical lines at once (one in reference clip, but 3 on screen)
    Just to be clear I am not saying there is no issue at all, just not to the extent of the videos posted, I did download the bee movie clip and ep1 of white collar for the jail bar scene and played them off the USB stick.

    i will try again tonight

  6. #231
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    I think Philips/JuAn was trying to say that they are at the stage 3. where they have left it over to the software technicians to look at it. If they actually have started on it or not is another thing, that's not mentioned.

    I do agree on what I think gstan80 said, when we bought the TV, we didn't exactly have the option to say "Well, wait a bit, you will have my money, but it will take some time.". We paid and expected to get the finished advertised product, which we haven't got really. We got some kind of beta version where the menu was barely possible to navigate because of lag, even changing the volume lags, and sources get detected 10000 times. If Phillips had even put 1 min into testing their own TV, they would have noticed it all. I did notice as soon as I first went through the first initial settings.

    Sure, Elgiganten has a very favourable policy of 30 days to test most products and return without cost. So it could have been returned for us who bought it there. But I don't watch TV all day or evaluated all kinds of different scenes. Except for the extremely laggy/buggy and stupid menu etc. and poor/useless Apps, I didn't notice that much issues with the TV. And 30 days goes really fast.

    When firmware then came that addressed and acknowledged some of the menu lag, I also expected Phillips to keep up on the improvements. But it feels like it has stagnated a bit, the latest software isn't even available through the auto-update, I had to get it into a USB and updated manually. And now like some others I have some flickering during very bright scenes and it seems like the Format changes to Autofill some times.

    While petasis has a point of source video and standards possibly could cause some issues on all models, it's obvious that many TVs has managed to compensate for this. As majorusa has shown very well in his videos, even old TV models can handle the movement much better.

    I think the major issue is that Phillips has not put enough computing power into the TV, and that's of course hardware, not software. Software can only be optimized so much.

    PS. Phillips: Please fix the menu so you can use shortcuts to get to various parts and why aren't you fixing all the broken, useless and slow "apps", while we wait for a real solution to the major issues. DS.
    Last edited by hugTV; 11-05-2012 at 12:44 PM.

  7. #232
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    Quote Originally Posted by Philips - Benedickte View Post
    Hi AliH.

    Welcome to the forums.

    I am pleased to hear you have been thinking about buying a Philips TV. A 6000 series is a good choice. I am sure you have looked the specifications of the TV. If you have any questions, don’t hesitate to ask

    This is the only one I have seen with this issue, so not a common or known issue.

    Best regards,
    Benedickte
    I just found this forum thread after one of those videos on youtube and all I can see is a massive denial from Philips to acknowledge this issue.

    First, why would you recommend this TV set by deceiving customers and saying that there was only one television with this issue?

    It's been few months and it's full of videos online with TV having the same issues.

    I just hope one day you will be able to solve it, I can't send the TV back anymore...

  8. #233
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    I contacted Philips in Sweden about this problem with judder/artifacts in fast motion scenes and referred to this thread. They had never heard of this problem and was not interested in giving a refund, but they offered to take it in for repair because it could be something wrong with my TV (47pfl6877t). I told them it probably wouldn't help unless they replaced it with a different model.

    So then I contacted Elgiganten that I bought the TV from and explained my problem. After a very long discussion they finally offered to let me return it if I bought another more expensive TV from them instead. So I did that and now have a Sony 55" HX855 instead, which I am extremely happy with. Perfect motion, perfect picture and lesser bugs.

    So maybe you can try to contact the store you bought it from and if you're lucky they let you return it?

  9. #234
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zebbie View Post
    I contacted Philips in Sweden about this problem with judder/artifacts in fast motion scenes and referred to this thread. They had never heard of this problem and was not interested in giving a refund, but they offered to take it in for repair because it could be something wrong with my TV (47pfl6877t). I told them it probably wouldn't help unless they replaced it with a different model.

    So then I contacted Elgiganten that I bought the TV from and explained my problem. After a very long discussion they finally offered to let me return it if I bought another more expensive TV from them instead. So I did that and now have a Sony 55" HX855 instead, which I am extremely happy with. Perfect motion, perfect picture and lesser bugs.

    So maybe you can try to contact the store you bought it from and if you're lucky they let you return it?
    I looked at the HX, however I have read quite a lot of complaints about clouding/banding etc also the 3d isnt very good - ** sorry gone off topic **

  10. #235
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manuj View Post
    I have only set the minimum setting. Never more (and if there was no issue, min setting would be fine for me).
    There may be some hardware differences then ? Or some other setting combination ? (clear lcd is ON, mpeg artifacts to min)
    I've read several times that it was not a major issue for you.

    Did you download the clip ?
    I may also post some other frames. Like having tipple vertical lines at once (one in reference clip, but 3 on screen)
    Ok did a little more testing, based on the white collar jail clip, the only way I can reproduce the ripple effect in the bars is to set the motion to medium or max, setting it to min removes 99% of the problem on that scene in my eyes

    I have clear LCD on, noise and mpeg are off

    Don't get me wrong i do see the odd problem now and then, its not perfect and I still hope philips look at it and see if they can improve it
    Last edited by mrb1972; 11-05-2012 at 11:23 PM.

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    I had the occasion to test the 47PFL6067H this afternoon in a shop and the HDNM problem also occurs like with the 55PFL6007H (which was exposed in the shop too and had the hdnm bug exactly like mine), so I think the issue affects at least the whole 6000 series. I really hope Philips are going to delevop an update soon because the tv would be the best in its range price without that ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by petasis View Post
    What you complain about is a problem of motion compensation in general, and exists on all TVs. Have you checked the same scenes in another brand?
    I think it would be interesting fr you to do so.

    There is no solution for the problems you describe, other than to put HDNM at its minimum setting, or close it completely. It cannot be fixed, no matter what philips may try to do.
    That is just BS! You need to go to elgiganten and watch the TV yourself and then make this claim again. I returned my Philips due to the motion artifacts and got an LG instead. And there are almost no motion artifacts on the LG (with equal fluent motion). Yes there is some, but it is next to nothing compared to the Philips. Watching TV on the Philips made me mad because I couldn't stop focusing on the artifacts which made me feel like I had been ripped off by Philips (and the salesperson at Elgiganten who praised this TV over all others - I originally wanted another brand).

    So to say that the motion artifacts as bad as the one seen on the Philips is a universal problem with all TV is simply wrong.

  13. #238
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrb1972 View Post
    Don't get me wrong i do see the odd problem now and then, its not perfect and I still hope philips look at it and see if they can improve it
    Maybe you're more tolerant than some of us.
    Or some other explanation.

    I began watching "shutter island" yesterday, again tons of artifacts with a 1080p film.
    Even when a guy is coming to shake hands, his fingers disappear/blink.
    There's a car moving behind some barbed wires, guess what, the barbed wires just disappear (kind of practical). A few seconds later a gate with wire grating, again as soon as the gate is moving the wires just disappear.
    And I can see the blur when scenes are moving fast.
    Then my kids watched Ice Age....

    I just began making a video (under adobe after effects), with moving objects behind a grid. I'll see the outcome (well I first have to fight to find the right encoder, I can't find H264 under XP). Maybe we can make our own video reference.

    It's hard for me to believe there is not enough processing power. This is not Philips' first fullhd models. My guess is that they wanted to split into too many options, and that gets awfull when not mastered/handled correctly. And looking at the number of bugs it can look as if they should improve their processes (bugs are okay, but we see many regressions, and recurring tiny stupid bugs).

    Or Maybe Philips will tell more precisely what's happening.
    Hello Philips, do you copy ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Manuj View Post
    Maybe you're more tolerant than some of us.
    Or some other explanation.

    I began watching "shutter island" yesterday, again tons of artifacts with a 1080p film.
    Even when a guy is coming to shake hands, his fingers disappear/blink.
    There's a car moving behind some barbed wires, guess what, the barbed wires just disappear (kind of practical). A few seconds later a gate with wire grating, again as soon as the gate is moving the wires just disappear.
    And I can see the blur when scenes are moving fast.
    Then my kids watched Ice Age....

    I just began making a video (under adobe after effects), with moving objects behind a grid. I'll see the outcome (well I first have to fight to find the right encoder, I can't find H264 under XP). Maybe we can make our own video reference.

    It's hard for me to believe there is not enough processing power. This is not Philips' first fullhd models. My guess is that they wanted to split into too many options, and that gets awfull when not mastered/handled correctly. And looking at the number of bugs it can look as if they should improve their processes (bugs are okay, but we see many regressions, and recurring tiny stupid bugs).

    Or Maybe Philips will tell more precisely what's happening.
    Hello Philips, do you copy ?
    Ha Ha no I am not tolerant at all, this is about my 7th TV in 2 years

    What you provide scene times for shutter island I will check them out on mine

  15. #240
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    Do you believe some TVs are more affected than others ?
    I can't believe I'm asking too much and just have to forget about sharpness on a full hd tv (my first by the way, I used to have a 720p projector). I have yet to test another brand myself.

    If you can accepts artifacts in the bee movie clip, then that's enough I think. It's much worse than shutter island.
    The whole scene with the pollen boys preparing to leave has fast movements. Comparing TV, PC and tablet makes the TV be very very bad. Still images look great, but I do watch moving actions !

    Maybe Philips can tell more.
    Hello Philips ?

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