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  1. #316
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    Just thought I'd add another example:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CE9fWHwHlPU

    Watch the upper/left wing as the plane cross the screen at approx 28 sec. Parts of the ving flicker/disappear heavy.

    Then watch how the tail rudder shifts horisontally as the plane pans at approx 41 sec.

    Philips seems to go into the problem. I've been contacted to share further information about my configuration.

  2. #317
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    Quote Originally Posted by aise View Post
    the 4 jets clip looks the same on 8007, also from 00:55-00:57 you can see the planes wings flicker. all processing off except PNM minimum.
    Yes, the problem described and covered in this thread occurs in 8007 aswell. Not as intense as in the 6000 series but it is there. Weird thing is that when i bought the tv set in summer i did not notice the fast motion problem but just about a month ago for the first time and thats when i started searching on the internet for advice and solutions of the problem. It seems as a combination of hardware and software that was made worse by one of the firmware updates.

  3. #318
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    Quote Originally Posted by hermetic View Post
    Just thought I'd add another example:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CE9fWHwHlPU

    Watch the upper/left wing as the plane cross the screen at approx 28 sec. Parts of the ving flicker/disappear heavy.

    Then watch how the tail rudder shifts horisontally as the plane pans at approx 41 sec.

    Philips seems to go into the problem. I've been contacted to share further information about my configuration.
    Guys, come on! You are really nitpicking in my opinion.
    Take this "Top Gun" example from "hermetic": from a movie of 6600 seconds, you pick a few seconds of bad motion behaviour and say that your TV is bad??!! What about the rest of the movie?
    Every current TV has more or less problems with (extreme) motion scenes, as already explained earlier in this thread (I think it was "Petasis"). Improving motion judder will worsen other things (and vice versa).
    You also blame a 6000-series TV, while this is almost the lowest in the Philips range that has natural motion compensation.... If you want better spec's, pay some more money and buy the top model, they have more processing power.
    Same counts for "Manuj", who is using all kind of scenes that are meant to let TV's work on its limits, and then picks out 1 or 2 scenes (few seconds) saying the TV is rubbish. Please return to reality guys!

    Kind regards, WD85.
    Last edited by Watchdog85; 11-21-2012 at 12:46 PM.

  4. #319
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    Quote Originally Posted by Watchdog85 View Post
    Guys, come on! You are really nitpicking in my opinion.
    Take this "Top Gun" example from "hermetic": from a movie of 6600 seconds, you pick a few seconds of bad motion behaviour and say that your TV is bad??!! What about the rest of the movie?
    Every TV has more or less problems with (extreme) motion scenes, as already explained earlier in this thread (I think it was "Petasis"). Improving motion judder will worsen other things (and vice versa).
    You also blame a 6000-series TV, while this is almost the lowest in the Philips range that has natural motion compensation.... If you want better spec's, pay some more money and buy the top model, they have more processing power.
    Same counts for "Manuj", who is using all kind of scenes that are meant to let TV's work on its limits, and then picks out 1 or 2 scenes (few seconds) saying the TV is rubbish. Please return to reality guys!

    Kind regards, WD85.
    I understand your point but remember its not just the 6000 it is also the 7000 and 8000 that shows the same effect so its not just down to the lower spec model

  5. #320
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrb1972 View Post
    I understand your point but remember its not just the 6000 it is also the 7000 and 8000 that shows the same effect so its not just down to the lower spec model
    His thinking is: you have to buy a series 9000, to all worked perfectly.

  6. #321
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    Quote Originally Posted by sejmon View Post
    His thinking is: you have to buy a series 9000, to all worked perfectly.
    Hi sejmon and mrb1972,

    I did not say that it will work perfectly with higher models, I only said that all modern TV's (even the high spec-ed ones) suffer from some kind of artefacts (no one is perfect I'm afraid) but that behaviour gets better allong the range....And yes, I did some benchmarking tests in the store, proving this.....

    Rgd, WD85

  7. #322
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    @WD85 : back and still funny !
    Which of the concerned TVs do you own ? If you don't have problem with HDNM, then lucky you. I'm fine with it.

    I have already put arguments into this thread.

    My one and only reminder is a copy/paste from Philips website that I read before buying.
    400Hz Perfect Motion Rate (PMR) creates extreme motion sharpness for clear and vibrant images in fast action movies. The new Philips PMR standard shows the combined visible effect of the fastest panel refresh rate, HD Natural Motion and unique processing formula, for unprecedented motion sharpness.
    I read other specifications that I like very much (still picture quality, 3D, ambilight, just to name a few). I knew I would not get the best contrast for that price.

    Again I also could see those problems on Sharp Aquos, but not on Panasonic, Samsung and Sony (same price and also 400Hz motion compensation).

    I will now gently/quietly wait for Philips' feedback. Anyway only Philips can now tell what they think about it. I did my part of the job and I don't get so much criticized so far.

    If anyone is willing to test, I propose to use the "Urban Acrobat" clip. Then anyone can freely watch & decide if those kind of scenes are acceptable (a guy running in a city), or are just unlikely to happen ("extreme scene" which I don't understand myself the definition). Spiderman is much worse by the way, should not be flying around buildings...
    If some people would like to see the whole clip outcome (as recorded by my camera), please PM and I will upload this large video to hotfile and post the link.
    I thought the slow motion outcome that I posted on youtube was enough to keep bashers away.

    @mrb1972 someone reported that 7000 were not affected. But I may be wrong (or this guy was wrong)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Manuj View Post
    @mrb1972 someone reported that 7000 were not affected. But I may be wrong (or this guy was wrong)
    I thought it was a guy on AVforums, cant remember now - wouldn't make much sense though for the 6 & 8 to be effected and not the 7

  9. #324
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    Quote Originally Posted by Watchdog85 View Post
    Hi sejmon and mrb1972,

    I did not say that it will work perfectly with higher models, I only said that all modern TV's (even the high spec-ed ones) suffer from some kind of artefacts (no one is perfect I'm afraid) but that behaviour gets better allong the range....And yes, I did some benchmarking tests in the store, proving this.....

    Rgd, WD85
    I agree and am fully aware none of these motions systems are perfect or meant to be, what I would like to know is how some of these scenes compare on other brands and some kind of feedback from philips in regards to "sorry, its working within spec" or "yes its an issue and we are working to improve it"

  10. #325
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    Quote Originally Posted by Watchdog85 View Post
    Take this "Top Gun" example from "hermetic": from a movie of 6600 seconds, you pick a few seconds of bad motion behaviour and say that your TV is bad??!! What about the rest of the movie?
    I don't think I ever called the TV bad.

    I uploaded the clip, on request from Philips Consumer Care, and chose a scene that would clearly illustrate the problem. During a movie the flicker will appear in several scenes, and not only in action-like scenes - a waving hand that cuts in half, if only for half a second, does bug me. And that may be called nitpicking...

    My impression at the moment is that Philips support here, and my local support in Norway, does recognize that the shown effect are an unwanted downside to the perfect natural motion feature.

    All the best for our TVs :-)
    Last edited by hermetic; 11-21-2012 at 09:55 PM. Reason: Spoling mistoke

  11. #326
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    Downgrading the firmware on my 40PFL8007T/12 until a fw version before the so called picture improvement with fw QF1EU-0.133.4.0, actually made most of the motion problem go away......

  12. #327
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northstar View Post
    Downgrading the firmware on my 40PFL8007T/12 until a fw version before the so called picture improvement with fw QF1EU-0.133.4.0, actually made most of the motion problem go away......
    give a link to this fw please.

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  14. #329
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    Now back to the HDNM issue (why isn't there a seperate topic?) here something really interesting I hope the mods can pick up on:

    So, the 'judder' and 'artefact' issues as described in detail over here when you set HD Natural Motion to 'minium' or at a higher level due to a bug. I experience them, but when I switch of HDNM alltogether it's ok. (not good but ok)

    So here I was watching a TV drama episode on Sunday, and bang, weird artefacts and shadows around the TV shows logo when the camera was moving vertically or a person was walkings from right to left on the screen against a static background. I went almost through the roof, my HDNM was switched off I was sure about that!

    Now here's the thing: I had my subtitles on. Not .srt subtitles from a USB source or BluRay, but the subtitles when you watch analogue cable television via Teletekst.

    So having a teletekst subtitles layer over your picture creates the exact same artefacts as HDNM. Weird isn't it?

    I hope again the moderators can pick up on that and pass it on to technical support.

    My firmware - latest
    My TV - 37pfl6007
    Cable - Analogue
    Subtitles - on
    Channel - Nederland 3
    TV show - Penoza II

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