10-05-2012, 12:36 PM
Maybe we should gather and inform/warn people in forum, comments in blogs, comments in panel reviews, ...
Originally Posted by mojoman
This way we inform potential customers, and that might be putting some more pressure on Philips.
I'm not yet as upset as you are, but still on the disappointment line that a renowned brand is not dealing with those matters professionnaly. I'm sure Philips has a different approach with its own suppliers (when Philips is the customer).
Maybe it's time to remind Philips policy (found in General Business Principle, commitment to customers) :
Philips is driven to improve people’s lives. Its goal is to constantly delight each customer with breakthroughs both large and small.To this end, the company seeks to maintain an ongoing dialogue with its customers. Philips is committed to listen to and learn from them, so that it is able to design and deliver the solutions they really want and need. Philips will always deal with its customers in a fair and forthright manner, maintaining the highest levels of integrity.
10-05-2012, 01:28 PM
hi Gstan, I think this contribution hits the nail on it's head.
Originally Posted by gstan80
Outside this forum (when I mention this issue) I get the same sort of responses from other Philips users as Benedickte here above. A bit like: "There is always some juddering in exterme situations and/or with poor input".
But like you said, it is disturbing it's not only in extreme situations. It's happening in quite normal situations as well. And also with very proper input sources like HD Television and BluRay. It just happens way too often, and the television manages motions really poor. Much worse then my previous 6 year old LCD television.
So it's the 'acceptable to have some juddering' versus 'unacceptable to have a lot of juddering' discussion. And only herein this forum I find other users who do experience the same as me, that this is at an 'unacceptable' level.
Unlucky for us, we are having a real hard time to prove that this is not the acceptable some juddering, but the unacceptable juddering. Unless we could invite others into our living room and spend an evening watching TV with us.
Since we can't seem to get our problem across (which is frustrating), it doesn't seem to get resolved (which is even more frustrating) I can fully understand mojoman's response.
Cause this is all just very frustrating!
Last edited by _Stephan; 10-05-2012 at 01:32 PM.
10-05-2012, 01:38 PM
One thing for the readers in this topic (I hope it doesn't add frustration, but might explain some slow responding. Earlier this year Philips sold it's TV division to China, the Chinese company paying to use the Philips brand. Some I'm not sure whether Benedicte currently liaise with his 'old' Philips colleagues for the 2012 range like he did for the 2011 and before models. Or that he now has to turn to a complete new division from another company somewhere far away.
10-05-2012, 01:59 PM
Let me also remind that Philips is Marketing (boasting?) about PMR, sharpness, and other "award winning picture performance". Copy/pasted from their website :
Originally Posted by _Stephan
Perfect Motion Rate (PMR) creates extreme motion sharpness for clear and vibrant images in fast action movies. The higher the PMR number the more frame refreshments per second. Movement will look smooth and natural.
Our attitude would most probably be different with another brand releasing entry-price product. I'd like to get what I paid for (not more, not less).
And we've just been asking for an official statement for weeks and weeks up to now. They could well state their Q&A and technical department have not seen any defect yet following internal analysis (lasting for roughly 1.5 month until now). Or communicate with internal action items (firmware rework, roadmap for releasing a correction, ...)
10-05-2012, 02:43 PM
Are you all guys with motion issues using pfl6877 model? I have had the pfl6007 for a couple of days and have not noticed yet anything.
Can anyone suggest a film/scene that shows the problems up well so I can see if mine suffers from the same issues?
10-05-2012, 02:49 PM
Just to let you (again) know: we are currently looking into this issue, it has been escalated to development. But do not expect a solution "with the snap of a finger"! This must be thoroughly investigated, and that unfortunately takes (a lot of) time!
We greatly value your feedback and always take it seriously, but we do not have for all cases ready-made answers or solutions. Often we even have to involve our IC-makers to help us in finding solutions (time, time, time...). So, until we come up with a possible solution, I'm afraid you have to be patient.
To show that we take your feedback seriously: we have weekly meetings between the forum mod's, our callcenters, and development to discuss all your posts and see where we must/can help. Although the forum is initially set up as a user-to-user platform (users helping each other), in serious cases we will of course step in and look for satisfactory solutions.
Last edited by Philips; 10-05-2012 at 02:55 PM.
10-05-2012, 04:35 PM
Thank you for taking our feed-back seriously. It means that you are serious about your client satisfaction. How I see the situation:
- the behavior reported here is a bug affecting all 6xx7 series and this is pretty serious, dev team should be involved, FW must be addressed and/or HW parts to be changed
- the behavior affects a small number of sets and there is the easy solution, change the darn things with new ones not exhibiting this issue.
From your answer one might believe that we are in the first case. I must say that I tested all the 6007k I could find in the store in my town and all were showing the same judder.
As clients we paid the full amount of the TV price at the moment of purchase and did not take the Tv at home and told you we will test it and report to you our findings and eventually pay you the price of the set. The fact that you the mods have weekly meetings has little to none significance to us. The only thing that truly has significance to us is to solve the bugs your TV has. And they are plenty.
There is more than one month since you had the issue brought to your attention. One a half month later the only answer we have is that it will take a long long time to fix it. And you really think that asking for patience is enough?
Man, your TV section is due to fail big time. And is a shame because the picture on your Tv is really good but you have a sub-par development team and a lousy Quality Assurance Manager. Please prove me I am wrong.
I am a sad customer now. I paid a lot of money for a product that is below my 4 years old 9603. But we always have the review sites of all the stores and tech forums to tell our story.
10-07-2012, 10:11 AM
Hi guys! Did you miss my posts?
One more things to consider even dough it is nothing compared to our main problem.
After we did the last two updates (last one being 0.133.5.0), the TV menu already working like.. it takes even more time to load and respond. It takes ages to go to Perfect Natural Motion setting screen...
But like this is not enough, the last one is not responsive menu at all.
1. I try to start the tv from the remote - the red indicator of the tv works but the TV does not react at all.
2. I am running on VGA and try to go to TV directly from the remote tab - tv screen goes black and the tv does not respond at all.
3. TV runs on "TV" and I try to go to channel menu by hitting the LIST tab on the remote. Red indicator works but the TV has no reaction at all.
4. Time needed to go on the Perfect Natural Motion settings screen: 15-18 seconds depending on how fast is the menu reacting to commands.
5. click to to to Perfect Natural Motion settings screen: 18 seconds
Philips? Do you copy?
Video for all of the above will follow.
Regarding of what you said in the lasts post. Sorry but we pay all the money at once. How would be to change places and let us have the TV following that we will decide to pay whenever we consider we can. Perhaps today perhaps in two months time and so on..
Move a little bit faster and show us some respect. Give us the money back plus compensation, or change the TV with a good working one if there is any.
Show us that you are who you pretend you are.
10-07-2012, 10:27 AM
I found that the latest update made the menus quicker to scroll around, I dont have to wait anything like 18second to get to the perfect natural motion settings. Mine in the 6007 model
Originally Posted by gstan80
10-07-2012, 10:46 AM
What can I say? Luck you. I will come back with a video so you can see that and how "super fast" is the menu working.
If you could do the same will be good.
Originally Posted by mrb1972
10-07-2012, 11:04 AM
Philips PFL476877 menu navigation - HOME to Perfect Natural Motion
Here is the video about the neceseray time from HOME MENU screen to Perfect Natural Motion.
Is there any shortcut I have no idea about?
10-07-2012, 07:04 PM
Ok that looks the same as mine, menu speed isn't too bad it's the number of clicks required to get there, shortcuts are needed I agree
Originally Posted by gstan80
10-08-2012, 08:07 AM
Originally Posted by majorusa
I'm in the same line in every single thing you wrote in your post.
Just have to add that I'm also one of us experiencing a badly fixed ambilight (just for their Quality meetings).
@Juan & Philips
Thanks, this is first time I understand this is taken seriously and escalated.
I think we have proven to be patient and that identification of the root cause must be completed (7th week, so can't be talking about "snap of the finger" for identification of the defect).
Having some clear feedback about progress & action plan would make me (I can only talk for myself) satisfied as of today. Unfortunately your message has not much valuable information (I understand communication is sensitive, there must be another meeting for this), and I feel our complaints are still legitimate.
I must say I don't care about your internal processes and how you deal with nonconformities. This is your job and the forum is surely not the place to also discuss how this defect passed development and Q&A (PMR being one of the highest functionnality as we all know). I also believe each person at Philips is doing their best, but this forum is the only way for us, customers who paid for your products, to have some pressure. We can't rely on contractual agreements as can be found in the industry.
I believed the marketing promotion of PMR, as well as other specs that are mostly fulfilled. If I had noticed the judder, would I have bought this LCD ? No.
I'm concerned to get a clear situation as I feel I'm experiencing a major product defect (devlpt as well as Q&A defect).
- You're talking about time to get a solution, can you share what the root causes are ?
- Can we all benefit from an extended warranty period from Philips ? this would represent a factual action that you care for us, customers. Most of us have lost 13% of our one-year warranty.
10-13-2012, 12:28 AM
thanks for all the sharings guys, was a great contribute, i already pass this information in some forums, expect to make a huge snow ball.
anyone has philips shares..please sell now.
my concern start with audio issue, but looks like this tv is all buggy.
Last edited by couto27; 10-13-2012 at 12:53 AM.
10-15-2012, 07:51 AM
pfl476877T natural motion
I also bought the pfl476877t and is quite satisfied except for the socalled natural perfect motion, wich works very poorly, with fast movements. As an example of this, you can try setting the natural motion to max and then watch the scene from Avatar, when Jake takes his avatar running, theres a lot of blurring/unstabe picture effects around him.
Another example is in the 20th century fox logo, when the projector lights comes in front of the text ("century").
Really hopes this is just af software error wich can be fixed, if it isn't, well Philips you really have to say something!
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