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  1. #271
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manuj View Post
    Ok, I made better input files with X264 (Much better from xvid).

    There was some stuttering that are now gone. I don't care if this was the Philips player or xvid encoding. Out of topic.
    But artifacts are same

    Here are the 2 files newly coded with x264 codec (one of the best blueray codec).

    moving lines V12 camera output file, 55MB from my Camera in case Philips interested.

    Then I will update youtube videos another day.
    You should probably find "real" examples from movies, these test patterns maybe a bit extreme and not really represent typical movie scenes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mrb1972 View Post
    You should probably find "real" examples from movies, these test patterns maybe a bit extreme and not really represent typical movie scenes.
    Well, we did both right ? (talking about Majorusa)
    Anyone willing to find trailers should do it. Here is a quick link I found

    Now, I don't think this is extreme. Sorry, the lines are not even very fast because I can tell you this is even worse !
    These lines have always same width, which is even great for DSP.
    I have yet to try with other TV panels, but from what I have heard, Philips is far away.

    What are you using to compare HDNM and PNM when enabled ?
    What is your personal conclusion ? (I recall you wanted to test more but did you post your personal conclusions ?)

  3. #273
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manuj View Post
    Well, we did both right ? (talking about Majorusa)
    Anyone willing to find trailers should do it. Here is a quick link I found

    Now, I don't think this is extreme. Sorry, the lines are not even very fast because I can tell you this is even worse !
    These lines have always same width, which is even great for DSP.
    I have yet to try with other TV panels, but from what I have heard, Philips is far away.

    What are you using to compare HDNM and PNM when enabled ?
    What is your personal conclusion ? (I recall you wanted to test more but did you post your personal conclusions ?)
    By real world I meant those types of stress test patterns are not typical of normal viewing conditions found on TV and Movies, for example last night I watched a few shows then a bit of football then had a play on the Xbox and not once did I notice any picture side effects. (HDNM always set to min)

    Now I am not denying some situations are tripping up the motion system but for me "set to min" I hardly notice any problems - those test patterns you did do show up the weakness, I would like to see how the LG/SONY/Samsung displays the same scenes with their motion systems enabled - is it the same, better, worse - who knows.

    I really hope philips do come back with a solution or at least an explaination

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    i had Samsung D7000 before 8007 for 14 months and didn't notice a single artefact or broken picture in 14 months. i bring home 8007 and i see the broken motion after 10min. in the latest firmware they force the damn PNM ON, i set it OFF, turn the TV OFF, turn the TV back ON and PNM is ON again... why? it's not watchable with PNM ON!

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    Quote Originally Posted by aise View Post
    i had Samsung D7000 before 8007 for 14 months and didn't notice a single artefact or broken picture in 14 months. i bring home 8007 and i see the broken motion after 10min. in the latest firmware they force the damn PNM ON, i set it OFF, turn the TV OFF, turn the TV back ON and PNM is ON again... why? it's not watchable with PNM ON!
    Ironically I had a D8000 for a few weeks and noticed straight away stuttering motion - sent it back..

    I guess I am just not watching the type of material that's showing up the problem

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    Quote Originally Posted by fx.design View Post
    I've got the exact same HDNM problems thats being reported all over the place.
    I must say that I didn't really noticed the problem that much when watching movies.
    Just tested Manuj 5 test-clips and it wasn't a good experience to say the least.
    The moving gradient blocks where just horrible.

    TV: 47pfl6007T - FW 0.150.48.13
    This is EXACTLY what I was saying earlier: some people are creating a fuzz, and then others also start complaining, while they did not even notice it in the 1st place!

    I tested the video's created by Manuj, and yes there are artefacts visible, but that is exactly what they are meant to do: it are professional test videos, to test video systems/equipment over the limit, to see what it is capable of. These are not meant for this kind of evaluations, they are used during development. @mrb1972: I fully agree with you.

    I think that these video's show exactly the same behavior on other brands (similar priced models).
    @Manuj, could you test them on other brand models too, and show the results in a video here? Would be very interesting....

    Rgrds, WD85
    Last edited by Watchdog85; 11-08-2012 at 03:20 PM.

  7. #277
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    I think these longstanding problems. I, besides the 6007H I have a 21:9 Cinema Gold, both changed from pixel precise to pixel perfect, and playing the video of bees in both, the problem is exactly the same. With perfect pixel do not disappear completely antennas. Pixel Precise, yes.

    Before I had the 6007, as had many philips tried switching brands, and bought a LG LM660S, but video processing and motion management was much worse than Philips, and also suffered from a very exaggerated clouding.

    Far worse than the Philips TV picture quality, in my opinion, although his firm is much more polished and is more stable.

    Regards.

  8. #278
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    Hi everyone.
    I bought the 55PFL8007T at Elgiganten in Sweden a few months ago and I hate it... I have exactly the same f**king bad picture as you all. I have turned the PNM off just to be able to watch tv without throwing something at it.. I can not belive the way Philips is acting in this matter.
    Since i bought it there has been 2 or 3 software updates without any improvment.
    // Alex

  9. #279
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex73 View Post
    Hi everyone.
    I bought the 55PFL8007T at Elgiganten in Sweden a few months ago and I hate it... I have exactly the same f**king bad picture as you all. I have turned the PNM off just to be able to watch tv without throwing something at it.. I can not belive the way Philips is acting in this matter.
    Since i bought it there has been 2 or 3 software updates without any improvment.
    // Alex
    Thanks for posting, I turn up to be the bad guy asking for a better "pixel Precise" or "pixel perfect". Whatever.
    I heard 6xx7 are even worse than 8007...

    @watchdog : what TV do you own ?

    When I came home, kids were watching animation movie. Really, Pixar, Dreamworks and all just don't care about extreme or not... Should Philips do a release note not to have small objects moving fast over high contrast ?
    My video has just nothing extreme... I just used what failed.

    Following your comments I decided to watch nature documentary.
    Really, this was bad (when motion for sure).
    The best are usually birds (eagles in my case) they just blink. There were artifacts all over the place.
    And in any movie, as soon as someone moves his arm, clap hands, ... this gets awful. I know I see when there's motion everything collapse for a blink of a second around moving object.
    You're lucky not to see.

    Up to now I have not been comparing with other brands. I just bought one TV boasting for pixel precise.
    I will take Big Buck bunny on usb stick, as well as Bee clip. And as I get to friends I will test.
    In Big buck bunny you can watch this butterfly.... when Bick is running, there is always a huge hallow around him.

    Anyway, we're all still waiting for Philips feedback.
    They should finally tell if I'm the bad guy or not. If I turn up to be the bad guy, then ok, the TV is not for me.
    Following a few forums, isn't it the main issue people have been talking about for several months ?
    How many have returned their TV ?

    Again thanks for newcomers taking time to post that they also felt cheated. There have been quite a few on this forum, and not only 3-5 people as some suggest.

  10. #280
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    Quote Originally Posted by gstan80 View Post
    JuAn,

    Please reply with a time frame.

    Let us know exactly what is happening and most important the compensations in terms of extended warranty. You are investigating issues that should be done before launching the TV. Philips is now trying to repair the mess on our time and money.
    You should really come up with something good.

    A normal process will be money back and let us choose your brand and TV if and after you fix the problem. Another will be replacing our TV sets with some more advanced series that will not have such ridiculous problems.
    That will show power and respect for the ones that feed you. Can Philips be found under the words of my last sentence?

    Do not just give us a piece of bread here saying what the process is but not giving any substantial engagement.

    at 3 - "Also this process might take some time. "
    at 4 - " You guess it, again takes time...."

    Is that what we are saying at the cashiers when we buy the TV and send money to Philips accounts? It takes time ? Is that what we are saying? Not to be mention that it takes time can mean anything for me.. 2 months 2 years..

    Do you want to wash the dirt? Make a public release on the official page of the product that the next update will resolve this problem and explain the problem in it's little detail and also what is causing it. That will be admitting self fault and show us you really care. Do not just throw some vague promises here.

    All my respect to the people contributing here and give out of their time to make complains.

    G
    hi Everyone,

    I'm writing from Turkey to you. I bought 47PFL6877/K from one of the biggest tech retail company which is called Teknosa on 27/10/2012 (unfortunately without checking through web)
    After I received the TV on 31/10/2012, I can only find time to watch a full movie on Saturday and realized the same issues which you have realized. I checked the web site of Philips and I found this forum/topic.
    without losing time, i just went directly to Teknosa and told them that i want to return this TV since it has many problems and all those problems are very important for my view..

    Anyway, they told me Philips should write a report regarding return TV and they should also approve that TV is not performing which it has to but as you can imagine they just told Teknosa , there is no problem for the TV. So i cannot return it for now, but i'm thinking of going to court..

    When I read all the posts in this forum - i have the same conclusion which Gstan has, Philps should have known this problems from the launch of it and they are selling them without caring of people reactions and their valuable times/ money etc..

    Also I told the same thing to Teknosa that Philips are deceiving them - meaning that they are telling Teknosa there is no problem in their product and only customers are complaining about it..

    It's nonsense at all - since we've paid lots of money for a Philips product to watch a good TV but we found something in our living rooms like crap..

    My 10 years old TV with 51 cm has better view than this product..

    I hope Philips will stop selling this product and replace the ones which we have already in our homes or else solve our problems within an acceptable time frame.

    As Gstan is telling we paid the money of TV to Philips but not get what they offered to us.

    Regards

  11. #281
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    That's right, Philips TV has very very bad picture with HDNM. It is also so bad without it (off position).
    Philips wake up!!!, I spent a lot of money (1537 USD !!!) for your 42pfl6007 TV in order to get the BEST picture TV I can get, and NOTHING!!!
    I though Philips is great company with responsibility, products with high level, and I find it very very WRONG…
    What happened to you Philips?? Which product are you manufacturing ??
    If your product is not reaching to perfect performance, so why I spent a LOT of money for this TV?? I could buy another brand with less money and get much better picture quality!!
    Philips, or should I say "TP Vision", are you trying to make money on the back of your customers? Producing so low quality product and selling it with high prices ??
    Maybe this TV division is not Philips anymore, but just "TPV Technology" (with 70% of Philips stocks). This company has the rights to sell TVs under "Philips" name, and maybe it is their strategy, and we can't do anything about it.
    "TPV Technology" is only mentioning in the user manual, the TV package and the TV itself has ONLY "Philips" on it, so you Philips has full responsibility on that issue!!! Don’t try to escape from this!!!
    Prove we are wrong!! where is your responsibility??, I bought "Philips" product!!
    WE WANT YOU RESPONSE!!!!

  12. #282
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    Quote Originally Posted by NaC View Post
    That's right, Philips TV has very very bad picture with HDNM. It is also so bad without it (off position).
    Philips wake up!!!, I spent a lot of money (1537 USD !!!) for your 42pfl6007 TV in order to get the BEST picture TV I can get, and NOTHING!!!
    I though Philips is great company with responsibility, products with high level, and I find it very very WRONG…
    What happened to you Philips?? Which product are you manufacturing ??
    If your product is not reaching to perfect performance, so why I spent a LOT of money for this TV?? I could buy another brand with less money and get much better picture quality!!
    Philips, or should I say "TP Vision", are you trying to make money on the back of your customers? Producing so low quality product and selling it with high prices ??
    Maybe this TV division is not Philips anymore, but just "TPV Technology" (with 70% of Philips stocks). This company has the rights to sell TVs under "Philips" name, and maybe it is their strategy, and we can't do anything about it.
    "TPV Technology" is only mentioning in the user manual, the TV package and the TV itself has ONLY "Philips" on it, so you Philips has full responsibility on that issue!!! Don’t try to escape from this!!!
    Prove we are wrong!! where is your responsibility??, I bought "Philips" product!!
    WE WANT YOU RESPONSE!!!!
    Maybe it would help them if you actually detailed what the problems are? What are you seeing on screen? What are you watching at the time? etc etc

  13. #283
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrb1972 View Post
    Maybe it would help them if you actually detailed what the problems are? What are you seeing on screen? What are you watching at the time? etc etc
    By the way, how much improvement did you get by switching to PNM ?
    What are you also watching in that case.
    Thanks

  14. #284
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrb1972 View Post
    Maybe it would help them if you actually detailed what the problems are? What are you seeing on screen? What are you watching at the time? etc etc
    mrb1972,
    This issue of HDNM on pfl6007 models was discussed here and in many other threads. It is not my first post here, and I think Philips has all the information they need and so much MORE.
    All descriptions, all movies that were given here as examples (like bee movie), movies prepared by Manuj, ALL is here in this thread. (btw: Manuj, I did not turn my TV into PNM. If it's a good solution, Philips should do that!!)
    I'm tired to repeat again and again on the same explanation.
    Now, it's Philips turn!
    Philips, response now! We are tired from this ignoring!! no more excuses! Find solution to all of us right now!! You had all time required, now it's your turn to speak!

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    Quote Originally Posted by NaC View Post
    mrb1972,
    This issue of HDNM on pfl6007 models was discussed here and in many other threads. It is not my first post here, and I think Philips has all the information they need and so much MORE.
    All descriptions, all movies that were given here as examples (like bee movie), movies prepared by Manuj, ALL is here in this thread. (btw: Manuj, I did not turn my TV into PNM. If it's a good solution, Philips should do that!!)
    I'm tired to repeat again and again on the same explanation.
    Now, it's Philips turn!
    Philips, response now! We are tired from this ignoring!! no more excuses! Find solution to all of us right now!! You had all time required, now it's your turn to speak!
    Sorry for the confusion, I was asking mrb1972.
    I'm on the same line as you for the time being.
    From what I imagine at Philips, devlpt people are back to evaluate. Things take time, and I can give a few more working days (before deciding what to do with my TV !)

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