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  1. #421
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    Philips - Benedickte's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sejmon View Post
    hi Philips - Benedickte

    sorry for off topic, but it seems so I only got the answer.
    five days ago I sent to Philips - Thomas PM and the message still not answered.

    Is really hard to answer on PM or on topics in this forum??

    even if it was not present on this forum, as a moderator he can set any "redirection" for pm, or something similar.
    Hi Sejmon.

    I am sorry to hear that your PM is not been answered yet, however we have had christmas holidays and during christmas there has been limited sources here from us moderators, this mean it can take us a little time to get through everything. This also includes PM's. I also want to remind you that we are working "office hours" and not 24/7 like robots
    You are more than welcome to send me the PM you sent Thomas and i will have a look at this for you.

    Best regards,
    Benedickte
    Forum Mod

  2. #422
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    Quote Originally Posted by Philips - Benedickte View Post
    Hi Martytv

    Please keep the DSE subject out of this thread as that is a totally different from the thrad subject. Keep this in a seperate thread.

    Best regards,
    Benedickte
    This is a general review thread addressing many issues (HDNM and banding being two) on several models, 6877 and 6xx7 alike. I guess my complimenting of HDNM wasn't too bad for you, so I think I deserved the right to mention the vertical banding issue, IMHO.
    Quote Originally Posted by Manuj
    However I read the links and you're right but this seemed to concern very few people. However there's no real sample video, picture, and real discussion that went on
    Pictures posted as seemed to be requested. Was referring to that - It's just that simple, Benedikte.

  3. #423
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    I have similar problem on 46PFL5507 with HDNM, this is a good algorythm but is generating to much artefacts and judder. So I think that all TV series for 2012 have the same problem.

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    Quote Originally Posted by martytv View Post
    Pictures posted as seemed to be requested. Was referring to that - It's just that simple, Benedikte.
    Please don't pretend I was asking you to post your pictures here.
    The preceeding sentence of my post (the one you take as reference) is
    "Please don't mix threads/subjects too much or it gets complicated for future readers."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Manuj View Post
    Please don't pretend I was asking you to post your pictures here.
    The preceeding sentence of my post (the one you take as reference) is
    "Please don't mix threads/subjects too much or it gets complicated for future readers."
    Amen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marcin View Post
    I have similar problem on 46PFL5507 with HDNM, this is a good algorythm but is generating to much artefacts and judder. So I think that all TV series for 2012 have the same problem.
    Hi Marcin.
    I can see you're like me (and some others) who registered just because of that natural motion compensation system.
    After 3 months, I still think there's a defective part, and that Philips' motion processing does not fulfil Marketing promises at all.

    Past this frustration of not getting what I thought I was paying for, I now believe it is a complex world.
    I finally took time to find Eikka's comprehensive work on AVforums website because it is worth reading for anyone interested.
    There are several posts from him on that page, comparing motion algorithms, and also one LG and one Sony panel.
    Even if it is his own experience, with his own eyes and feelings (we're not all distracted by same things), it is worth reading I think. He made his best for sure, invested time and brings some analysis.

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    What I fear is that if Philips fixes the artefacts, it will be at the expensive of some more judder. Eventually making me wonder why I bought a Philips TV. Are people ready for this sacrifice? If we can regulate the compromise artefacts vs. judder, that would be fine.
    The differentiators for me were HDNM/PNM and passive 3D. Image quality is very good but could not rival Samsung panels. Now, I'm only talking about 6xx7 models.

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    Quote Originally Posted by martytv View Post
    What I fear is that if Philips fixes the artefacts, it will be at the expensive of some more judder. Eventually making me wonder why I bought a Philips TV. Are people ready for this sacrifice? If we can regulate the compromise artefacts vs. judder, that would be fine.
    The differentiators for me were HDNM/PNM and passive 3D. Image quality is very good but could not rival Samsung panels. Now, I'm only talking about 6xx7 models.
    I don't think that Philips can & will do much more than what's embedded in latest firmware (sorry Marcin, not for your model). Some people saw improvements.

    You're right about passive 3D and other items, this is also why I decided to keep that TV and decided I could live with HDNM OFF. But this is everyone's choice as many people tend to prefer HDNM set to min.

    And Philips seems not to be communicationg at CES this year. So we don't have any product announcement and feedback from reviewers there. I'd love to know if a new IPS panel will arrive in 2013 and hopefully better also in motion compensation aspects. The dream TV to my personal use case.
    Last edited by Manuj; 01-10-2013 at 03:32 PM. Reason: typo

  9. #429
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    Maybe we should ask for the open source code and look it up - just kidding.
    Not sure how much their MC algorithm actually can be configured through the firmware besides of the min/avg/max settting. The main part of the algorithm might just be burned in the silicon. Hope not but considered how resource intensive it is, it may well be.

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    Got my 42PFL6xx7 exchanged. The central vertical banding is gone for the most part. Still, I notice two small dark stripes of shade, 1/2 inch tall, 1 inch apart, 3 millimeter wide, at the top of the screen. These were present on my first set. They show up about 1 or 2 weeks of use? (believe it or not?!) It's most likely a physical design issue.

    Anybody here with a 42 inch PFL6xx7 model (42PFL6007, 42PFL6057, 42PFL6067, 42PFL6907, 42PFL6877) who could confirm the issue? Two sets affected so far, surely I am not the only one noticing these problems.

    Regarding HDNM/PNM I found this 12 year old thread, might be worth reading

    http://www.avforums.com/forums/tvs/2...hilips-tv.html

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    Hi,

    I have finally spent some time testing hdnm on 150.82.
    There are much less artifacts (as in bee movie introduction), also fast moving scenes are not "collapsing" as they uses to in previous firmware (and reason why I posted so many images and videos).

    So now I can live with hdnm set to minimum.
    Since all the youtube videos I posted are outdated, I just deleted them so that they don't misguide people.

    Only future buyers (looking at TVs in shops), should make sure they compare brands with, at least, firmware 150.82.

  12. The Following User Says Thank You to Manuj For This Useful Post:

    Toengel (01-27-2013)

  13. #432
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manuj View Post
    Hi,

    I have finally spent some time testing hdnm on 150.82.
    There are much less artifacts (as in bee movie introduction), also fast moving scenes are not "collapsing" as they uses to in previous firmware (and reason why I posted so many images and videos).

    So now I can live with hdnm set to minimum.
    Since all the youtube videos I posted are outdated, I just deleted them so that they don't misguide people.

    Only future buyers (looking at TVs in shops), should make sure they compare brands with, at least, firmware 150.82.
    That's interesting, I didn't notice any difference with 150.82 although I didn't test it in any detail like you have due to the back light flicker, quickly downgraded

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    There are a bunch of improvements in still/slow moving objects in front of speedy background.
    Taking the whole Bee movie introduction is now okay. I mean I knew of about 10 different scenes and it now looks okay (no demultiplied antenae, no bees flickering/disappearing when small on top of a fast background).
    The high contrast between objects and moving background does not make things so bad. I have also partly watched "how to train your dragon" in 3D... that used to be real bad with high contrast of dragon wings in the sky.

    I would not risk telling that Philips is now as good as others. And I would not risk either telling if remaining artifacts are about a bad motion compensation, or because of the limits of such calculation of missing frames.

    I think I can always tell when hdnm is set, not only because of some slight artifacts (moving arms/legs kind of flicker) but also because of the lack of 24fps juddering in slow panning (which is great).
    So I hope that Philips team is focussing on other items (backlight flicker for sure), and that we won't see some regression on future firmwares.

    I certainly should have involved some time before. But I don't update fw quickly (waiting to see), then I just got used to Game mode and was not willing to involve again much time.
    I would say that Game mode in 3D has regressed, but it's hard for me to tell what's happening. It's just a little more tiring to watch. But hdnm is back on my TV.

    I hope some other people will write the same feedback.

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    Unfortunately, I can't tell the same. For me the natural motion issue has not changed and stays the same. I played again the short bee movie that was published here (6 minute) and I see the same flickering and disappearing of legs/bees.
    I hope Philips is working on this one, and improve Philips natural motion function.
    Another thing that was mentioned here is the dynamic backlight flickering. In case of PFL6XX7 models, which have low black levels, this feature is more than needed. I hope Philips is working on this too.

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    also judder problems with our new 47pfl6877h/12

    Hi all,
    We also experience strange judder in a lot images, especially when there is a lot of movement in the scene. It reminded me of a bad compressed movie with too many blurred pixels. We love the clarity of the screen, ambilight and the remote control, so we really hope for a good solution, but the problem is so irritating that we consider to return this one and buy another tv.
    It's pretty weird when you switch from a HDready tv (also Philips) and dvd player to a full HD tv and blu ray player (both Philips with an excellent HDMI cable) and have a worse view of an action movie.
    Can someone from Philips tell me if there is a solution coming up?
    And yes I have the latest software 150.82.0, good HDMI cables and the problem occur with blu ray, 3d and hd digital tv.

    Regards,
    Rosanne
    Netherlands

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