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  1. #181
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    I thought I'd better post it here as well:

    I hope I found something that might help developers @Philips in resolving the HDNM issue.

    The HD Natural Motion Bug (HDNM) that causes pixel clouds & ghosting when this 'feature' is MINIMUM or higher. I think this bug is widely reproduced at this forum.

    Now offcourse I have switched HDNM 'OFF' (dissapointingly enough) to have at least an acceptable picture quality.

    Now last Sunday I was watching a (slow-paced) drama show over the analogue cable, and there it was again: clear 'juddering' around the channel's logo. Kinda upset I checked my settings (HDNM was OFF). But then I realised I had switched on the subtitles via Teletekst so I could keep the volume low.

    So hopefully someone can reproduce the following:
    HDNM - Off
    Pixel Precise (and all other 'improvement features') - Off
    Cable TV - On
    Teletext - On

    There is the juddering, even though HDNM is OFF.

    Could it be that the Teletekst-layer and the HDNM-layer have the same buggy effect on the hardware? If so, it should be easier for Philips to pin-point the issue.

    Benedicte (or other admins) let me know if you need more details. And good luck. I'm still hopeful that this bug can be resolved at one point.

  2. #182
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    I've had a phone call from Philips support (following a 3-week old email).

    The person told me that this defect can be repaired.
    I told several time that there has been no acknowledgment on this forum for weeks and weeks, and that the repair company (she was proposing me for return) already told me that this was an unknown problem and that nothing will be done until an official statement.
    So my conclusion was that it was a serie defect.

    The person on the phone put me on-hold for 2-3 minutes, and told me she could tell me for sure that this problem had a correction.

    So I got a number to give to the repair service company.

    Please Philips, can you confirm what I have been told (firmly) on the phone ?

  3. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manuj View Post
    I've had a phone call from Philips support (following a 3-week old email).

    The person told me that this defect can be repaired.
    I told several time that there has been no acknowledgment on this forum for weeks and weeks, and that the repair company (she was proposing me for return) already told me that this was an unknown problem and that nothing will be done until an official statement.
    So my conclusion was that it was a serie defect.

    The person on the phone put me on-hold for 2-3 minutes, and told me she could tell me for sure that this problem had a correction.

    So I got a number to give to the repair service company.

    Please Philips, can you confirm what I have been told (firmly) on the phone ?
    Looks like you may have become a guinea pig for us.

    If it comes back the same then more ammunition to you.

    New range is due very early 2013 so they may be better by then!

  4. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manuj View Post
    I've had a phone call from Philips support (following a 3-week old email).

    The person told me that this defect can be repaired.
    I told several time that there has been no acknowledgment on this forum for weeks and weeks, and that the repair company (she was proposing me for return) already told me that this was an unknown problem and that nothing will be done until an official statement.
    So my conclusion was that it was a serie defect.

    The person on the phone put me on-hold for 2-3 minutes, and told me she could tell me for sure that this problem had a correction.

    So I got a number to give to the repair service company.

    Please Philips, can you confirm what I have been told (firmly) on the phone ?
    Is this to fix the HDNM issue?

  5. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by _Stephan View Post
    Now last Sunday I was watching a (slow-paced) drama show over the analogue cable, and there it was again: clear 'juddering' around the channel's logo. Kinda upset I checked my settings (HDNM was OFF). But then I realised I had switched on the subtitles via Teletekst so I could keep the volume low.

    So hopefully someone can reproduce the following:
    HDNM - Off
    Pixel Precise (and all other 'improvement features') - Off
    Cable TV - On
    Teletext - On

    There is the juddering, even though HDNM is OFF.

    Could it be that the Teletekst-layer and the HDNM-layer have the same buggy effect on the hardware? If so, it should be easier for Philips to pin-point the issue.

    Benedicte (or other admins) let me know if you need more details. And good luck. I'm still hopeful that this bug can be resolved at one point.
    I also discovered a strange thing with motion today (nothing to do with the HDNM problem already highlighted) - I have Sky+HD here in the uk which outputs at 1080i - I watch sky sports news which has a news ticker scrolling along the bottom of the screen and noticed with HDNM - off the ticker has random stutter/judder

    I did some tests -

    HDNM - min , Clear LCD - on = fine, no judder on ticker
    HDNM - off, Clear LCD - on/off = Judder/stutter on ticker

    Now I decided to try Game mode which disables the HDNM/Clear LCD options (you cant set them) - to my suprise - no judder nice smooth ticker

    Obvioulsy Game mode is turning off some extra processing which is causing the judder - interesting

  6. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrb1972 View Post
    Is this to fix the HDNM issue?
    This is what this person told me several times on the phone. Her words were "video processing".
    As you can imagine, I was a bit surprised, said it was hard for me to believe her because of the lack of official statement on this forum. As I said, she put me on hold to check out, and came back with even more assurance.

    I'll see what's best timing to bring back the TV. I'll call next monday this repair company and try to get more info as well.

  7. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrb1972 View Post
    I did some tests -

    HDNM - min , Clear LCD - on = fine, no judder on ticker
    HDNM - off, Clear LCD - on/off = Judder/stutter on ticker

    Now I decided to try Game mode which disables the HDNM/Clear LCD options (you cant set them) - to my suprise - no judder nice smooth ticker

    Obvioulsy Game mode is turning off some extra processing which is causing the judder - interesting
    I'll have a test with that.


    Well, another strange thing.

    We were watching "the lorax" in 3D, and this was quite bad. At the end I checked if hdnm was off. But there was everything I reported here. Also the vertical stuff when there is a panning on the tree when it first blooms (like bee movie antenna to name the problem).
    There was stuttering and all...

    I'm 100% sure in 2D the problems (like bee movie antennae) disappear because I did try last week-end.
    But not in 3D mode ?
    Anyway, I'm done with testing. I switched off the TV. The 4 other people watching did not say anything during the whole movie, maybe because first passive 3D experience at home is impressive.
    I just wanted to report here.

  8. #188
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    Since yesterday my TV is telling me repeatedly that a software update is available. I don't see it is downloading or anything, de TV reboots after a while and returns to the channel where it was. Then after a minute it comes again with an supposedly available update.

    This morning I came down in the TV room and the TV was on. I put it on standby and a short while later it was on again. I pulled the plug for the rest of the day.

    I'm beginning to regret that I was loyal to my original country and bought an Phillips. Happy that we have strong consumer laws here in Norway. I'm really beginning to think that I have to return this TV.

    I want a TV that just works like thes things did in the last 50 years or so. Now I feel a bought an El Cheapo PC running Windows. It crashes, refuses to boot if it needs to, and boots when nobody pushed the buttons.

    Philips: get you act together and fix this for once and for all.

  9. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manuj View Post
    This is what this person told me several times on the phone. Her words were "video processing".
    As you can imagine, I was a bit surprised, said it was hard for me to believe her because of the lack of official statement on this forum. As I said, she put me on hold to check out, and came back with even more assurance.

    I'll see what's best timing to bring back the TV. I'll call next monday this repair company and try to get more info as well.
    Interesting but it's a worry that the fix seems to be a hardware fix, what are philips going to do, recall all the models?

  10. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrb1972 View Post
    Interesting but it's a worry that the fix seems to be a hardware fix, what are philips going to do, recall all the models?
    Well, there's no proof what she told me was real until one of us gets his TV repaired.
    But I can only say she told me she was certain my problem could be fixed.
    Again, I'll try to make sure from repair company that they know about it. Through my "ticket" number, this service company should be able to confirm everything.

    Other people could act the same way. I did use customer care email (on Philips website, you can ask for a contact by email).
    I wrote more or less this :
    => I had issues with "fast motion scenes" on my TV.
    => this problem was developped on XXXXXXXXXXX (link to HDNM thread) and opened for so many weeks. Still not offically confirmed on Philips forum.
    => I was asking for a correction (hard/soft whatever) so as to keep my TV
    => Otherwise I was just asking what Philips could propose in order to find a solution.

    This is it.
    I first got an email reply, kindly telling me a new firmware had been released and was correcting this issue. This was roughly 3 weeks after 150.xx.xx release.
    So I swiftly replied that this issue was still not solved. And invited them, again, to read the HDNM thread.
    Then more or less 3 weeks passed before the phone call last friday.

    Going to the hardware side could explain why it took so long.
    Routing a board (with minor changes) + going into production + testing easily requires 2 months from my experience (for a smaller company in my case).

    Anyway we'll still have to be patient, and not be over confident....

  11. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manuj View Post
    Well, there's no proof what she told me was real until one of us gets his TV repaired.
    But I can only say she told me she was certain my problem could be fixed.
    Again, I'll try to make sure from repair company that they know about it. Through my "ticket" number, this service company should be able to confirm everything.

    Other people could act the same way. I did use customer care email (on Philips website, you can ask for a contact by email).
    I wrote more or less this :
    => I had issues with "fast motion scenes" on my TV.
    => this problem was developped on XXXXXXXXXXX (link to HDNM thread) and opened for so many weeks. Still not offically confirmed on Philips forum.
    => I was asking for a correction (hard/soft whatever) so as to keep my TV
    => Otherwise I was just asking what Philips could propose in order to find a solution.

    This is it.
    I first got an email reply, kindly telling me a new firmware had been released and was correcting this issue. This was roughly 3 weeks after 150.xx.xx release.
    So I swiftly replied that this issue was still not solved. And invited them, again, to read the HDNM thread.
    Then more or less 3 weeks passed before the phone call last friday.

    Going to the hardware side could explain why it took so long.
    Routing a board (with minor changes) + going into production + testing easily requires 2 months from my experience (for a smaller company in my case).

    Anyway we'll still have to be patient, and not be over confident....
    I will keep an eye on this and see how it turns out for you - tonight I did dome more testing and "game" mode does seem to fix some issues that a see with hdnm-off in movie mode, I am starting to think maybe some other picture processing feature which game mode disbales is causing an issue, maybe it's not just hdnm

  12. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrb1972 View Post
    I will keep an eye on this and see how it turns out for you - tonight I did dome more testing and "game" mode does seem to fix some issues that a see with hdnm-off in movie mode, I am starting to think maybe some other picture processing feature which game mode disbales is causing an issue, maybe it's not just hdnm
    I did test Game mode as well. In 3D, same sequence as yesterday in "the Lorax" when the plant is just flowering. And no vertical damage on the plant (kind of same as the "Bee movie" antennae.
    I watch a 10-minute sequence which looked great. A few times I had kind of a little stuttering, but nothing disturbing as what we have been looking and called "hdnm issues".

    So I now second that this is processing issues.
    GREAT !

  13. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by opdenkamp View Post
    Controlling Ambilight via the JointSpace API doesn't work properly. Some LEDs don't change colour, some change randomly, sometimes the response a request is "bad request" and LEDs change randomly, API examples don't work or even crash the TV's webserver

    TV is a 47PFL6877
    I'm experiencing the same thing. Several JointSpace API's doesn't work as expected.
    One of the most irritating is that the tv channel list does not return the list they are expected to. They all return the same thing.

  14. #194
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    Still no answers

    It is inexcusable that Phillips takes so long to fix things. I will write to consumentenbond to see what they say. I keep getting new dEvice messages, smart tv sometimes does not log on, ambilight sometimes does not go off in standby, menu spontaneously shows. What a piece of junk .

  15. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manuj View Post
    I've had a phone call from Philips support (following a 3-week old email).

    The person told me that this defect can be repaired.
    I told several time that there has been no acknowledgment on this forum for weeks and weeks, and that the repair company (she was proposing me for return) already told me that this was an unknown problem and that nothing will be done until an official statement.
    So my conclusion was that it was a serie defect.

    The person on the phone put me on-hold for 2-3 minutes, and told me she could tell me for sure that this problem had a correction.

    So I got a number to give to the repair service company.

    Please Philips, can you confirm what I have been told (firmly) on the phone ?
    sry my fault
    Last edited by seti1337; 12-03-2012 at 12:40 PM.

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