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  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrb1972 View Post
    Does anymore get the occasional judder/stutter watching channels that have news tickers/peoples faces etc - sky/bbc news? This only happens when HDNM is off and Clear LCD on, if I set HDNM to min its super smooth.
    [...]
    Yes, that's exactly what HDNM was invented to solve. Without HDNM, if the framerate of the source material does not exactly match the framerate of the display, you get uneven motion when the TV 'catches up' to the material.
    HDNM tries to estimate intermediate pictures, to smooth over the skips. What you are seeing is HDNM actually doing what it is supposed to do.

    At the same time, you will most likely also see the downside of HDNM: since the intermediate pictures are only estimated, certain types of source material can trigger artifacts in display (e.g. 'halos' and 'blockiness' around edges) - after all, a machine is trying to guess what the intermediate picture might have looked like. This sometimes fails, and the failure creates the artifacts.

    If you look around this forum, you will find a lot of threads and posts by people who react particularly sensitive to these artifacts and complain. You will also find people who complain about judder. The sad part is that you cannot avoid both.

    The SW tries to strike a compromise between the two problems. That's why you can select between different levels of HDNM - this is so that hopefully, almost everybody can find a level that agrees with them. A lot of posts and threads on this forum are testament to the fact that you can not please all people at all times ...

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisham View Post
    Yes, that's exactly what HDNM was invented to solve. Without HDNM, if the framerate of the source material does not exactly match the framerate of the display, you get uneven motion when the TV 'catches up' to the material.
    HDNM tries to estimate intermediate pictures, to smooth over the skips. What you are seeing is HDNM actually doing what it is supposed to do.

    At the same time, you will most likely also see the downside of HDNM: since the intermediate pictures are only estimated, certain types of source material can trigger artifacts in display (e.g. 'halos' and 'blockiness' around edges) - after all, a machine is trying to guess what the intermediate picture might have looked like. This sometimes fails, and the failure creates the artifacts.

    If you look around this forum, you will find a lot of threads and posts by people who react particularly sensitive to these artifacts and complain. You will also find people who complain about judder. The sad part is that you cannot avoid both.

    The SW tries to strike a compromise between the two problems. That's why you can select between different levels of HDNM - this is so that hopefully, almost everybody can find a level that agrees with them. A lot of posts and threads on this forum are testament to the fact that you can not please all people at all times ...
    Thanks for the reply, I am aware what HDMN is doing but I don't think that's the problem so I going to take HDMN out the equation.

    Im using the news ticker as an example but it happens on other channels too - its just easy to see on a news ticker - it's smooth 90% of the time but every few mins it will judder for a few seconds then return to normal.

    This happens with HDNM = off, Clear LCD on or off, but not in game mode which does not make sense unless game mode is turning off some extra processing!

    Also if I switch my sky box to 720p it seems ok which is why I am wondering if its the way the TV handles 1080i 50 ? Very Odd

  3. The Following User Says Thank You to mrb1972 For This Useful Post:

    L1Zeeman (01-14-2013)

  4. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Philips - Benedickte View Post
    Hi all.

    For the ones with pixel shift in PC/Game mode, please follow these steps:

    1. Set TV in PC mode.
    2. Go into menu > "Settings" > "Picture settings". Now find "Picture shift" and Press "OK"
    3. Now you should see 4 arrows (left, right, up and down), move the screen so it fits ( so against left).

    If it's still missing pixels on left hand side while right hand side is good please use "Screen edge".

    Please report back the result.

    Best regards,
    Benedickte
    No difference, the 5 pixel shift is still there.

    /Skalman

  5. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrb1972 View Post
    Does anymore get the occasional judder/stutter watching channels that have news tickers/peoples faces etc - sky/bbc news? This only happens when HDNM is off and Clear LCD on, if I set HDNM to min its super smooth.

    I have tried it with freeview and my Sky HD box and its the same , the picture output via these is 1080i/50

    I have tried some blu rays and they seem ok although I havent got anything with a news ticker on it..

    ** update after more testing **
    HDNM = off, Clear Lcd off, Judder/Stutter
    HDNM = off, Clear Lcd On, Judder/Stutter
    Game Mode = Fine, No Stutter

    Thanks
    I can confirm this problem on my 32PFL6007.
    The picture judders and stutters on and off.
    At times tickertapes are unreadable due to "double" picture, as if you're watching 3D without glasses

  6. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisham View Post
    Yes, that's exactly what HDNM was invented to solve. Without HDNM, if the framerate of the source material does not exactly match the framerate of the display, you get uneven motion when the TV 'catches up' to the material.
    HDNM tries to estimate intermediate pictures, to smooth over the skips. What you are seeing is HDNM actually doing what it is supposed to do.
    I believe this is a different kind of judder, it seems the picture processing gets into some kind of oscillation mode and a "double picture" is displayed.
    HDNM can only partly conceal it, you can still notice a transient behaviour when the juddering starts/stops.
    Also movements are displayed in a very unnatural way, with multiple images as if a stroboscope is used.

  7. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Philips - Benedickte View Post
    Hi all.

    For the ones with pixel shift in PC/Game mode, please follow these steps:

    1. Set TV in PC mode.
    2. Go into menu > "Settings" > "Picture settings". Now find "Picture shift" and Press "OK"
    3. Now you should see 4 arrows (left, right, up and down), move the screen so it fits ( so against left).

    If it's still missing pixels on left hand side while right hand side is good please use "Screen edge".

    Please report back the result.

    Best regards,
    Benedickte
    I do not know how many posts i have posted that "Picture Shift" setting doesnt help on this issue !!!!

    Looks to me like we are all talking to a wall !

  8. #127
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    hi everyone

    I recently buy the 42PFL6007H . I really like the TV, but i got a major problem, really annoying since i can't use 3D at all.

    3D is completely buggy with the computer and game mode ( not the normal mode but i don't want it because it's not good for input lag ) .Tested with PS3, xbox 360 and PC. picture look out of sync when there's some move and i can't watch the screen more than 30sec before it hurt my eyes. Looks like the HDNM and CLEAR LCD is still enable even if the computer and game mode is activate.
    well... i also get the 5 pixel shift bug too and the solution from Benedickte only work on normal mode ( not game or computer ).

  9. #128
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    I have got a Philips 42PFL6007K. The firmware version was 0.108.8.0 and I updated it to 0.155.82.0. By doing this, I did not notice any change in the menus charging speed, but at least the TV set stopped blocking its performance. However, all the menus appear on a terrible black background (while before it was transparent). Moreover, when the volume is being increased, it reacts with a big delay, and if the change is by one or two steps of the volume pointer, this change does not have time appear on the screen at all. Furthermore, the volume pointed is positioned on a terrible black band which hides almost one third of the screen. The same black band appears with the channel logo when a programme is being chosen. However, the worst fact is that the picture quality deteriorated drastically. The resolution is poor (no details can be seen), the images are blurred, the picture is too dark, no matter I tried various settings.

    Of what I have read in the forums, I came to the conclusion that the company Phillips managers are not really interested in the customers’ complaints and they would hardly change anything… Therefore, the only thing I as a customer could do is to regret for ever making the mistake to buy a product with Phillips trade-mark.

  10. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by L1Zeeman View Post
    I believe this is a different kind of judder, it seems the picture processing gets into some kind of oscillation mode and a "double picture" is displayed.
    HDNM can only partly conceal it, you can still notice a transient behaviour when the juddering starts/stops.
    Also movements are displayed in a very unnatural way, with multiple images as if a stroboscope is used.
    Yep that sounds like mine, are you also watching in 1080i or are you seeing it on all source?

  11. #130
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    Wnen I use the software for 5 minutes, the program gets locked and is hold. By resetting, it turns to work out. It continuously happens.

    PHILIPS TPVISION 150.82 fw

    slow fw. bad fw.

    problem 1
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AMTa1Hx5mY

    problem 2
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nq5imGNVnYw

    Posted iphone media after the channel crossing crash. freezing.
    There's more
    Last edited by Philips - Benedickte; 01-21-2013 at 10:01 AM. Reason: Double posting

  12. #131
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    Hi,

    its a well know problem, i have a 9707/12 and mine tv have that problem too.
    take a 7 a 8 sec, then the connection is back



    Quote Originally Posted by gokmenmani View Post
    problem 1
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AMTa1Hx5mY

    problem 2
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nq5imGNVnYw

    Posted iphone media after the channel crossing crash. freezing.
    There's more

  13. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by stefanox View Post
    Hi,

    its a well know problem, i have a 9707/12 and mine tv have that problem too.
    take a 7 a 8 sec, then the connection is back
    Hi, i have the same problem with my 8007K/12

  14. #133
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    panel is beautiful.
    The menu is very very slow.
    The menu is very very bad.
    The menu is very wrong.
    Smart TV is very slow. Bad.
    In short: Philips is good. Tpvision company is bad.

  15. #134
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    Hi,

    your kind of posts = spam...

    Toengel@alex

  16. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toengel View Post
    Hi,

    your kind of posts = spam...

    Toengel@alex
    Yes, and additionally, probably a secondary account (metedoruk == gokmenmani?)

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